Do you consume "unclean" food?
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It's ok. This is my characteristic. KSM.Originally posted by M©+square:To me it's - KSM
give up. -
Originally posted by Repented John 2:It is written at the end of Mark that when we drink poison, it will not hurt us. I dont claim it. Jesus claims it for us. That's why i said we dont tempt God by drinking poison.
Unclean food also contains poison in a sense after reading all these posts. So do we still take unclean foods knowing that they are detrimental to our health? Like taking long term poison into our systems. So i said in reply, that altho our food is sanctified & we can take even unclean foods, do we still go out & tempt God by taking them & destroying our health in the process? I hope you get what i mean.
John, you quoting Mark 16:15-20.
Mark 16:15-20 (NIV)
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
here is this scenario, Jesus is commissioning the believers to go preach the good news of salvation, and the poison part is just an example of the signs/wonders that follows them, the purpose is not about testing God or showing off, but the purpose is to confirm His (The Lord) word, a testamony of the One who sent them.
By the way, there is an account of a certain believer who while going about do the Lord's task was bitten by a venomous snake (not that he wants to get bitten) but the poison did not harm him at all.
(Acts 28 : Paul's encounter on the island of Malta) -
Precisely, bcos CE said i claim to drink poison & not be harmed, but it's the bible that said this. Jesus Himself said it. I was likening unclean foods to poison since they really poison your systems in the long run. So do we still take unclean foods knowing they harm us? God gave us a mind to think also.Originally posted by vince69:John, you quoting Mark 16:15-20.
here is this scenario, Jesus is commissioning the believers to go preach the good news of salvation, and the poison part is just an example of the signs/wonders that follows them, the purpose is not about testing God or showing off, but the purpose is to confirm His (The Lord) word, a testamony of the One who sent them.
By the way, there is an account of a certain believer who while going about do the Lord's task was bitten by a venomous snake (not that he wants to get bitten) but the poison did not harm him at all.
(Acts 28 : Paul's encounter on the island of Malta) -
vince has already given a very good explanation on the Mark passage so I won't go there.Originally posted by Repented John 2:It is written at the end of Mark that when we drink poison, it will not hurt us. I dont claim it. Jesus claims it for us. That's why i said we dont tempt God by drinking poison.
Unclean food also contains poison in a sense after reading all these posts. So do we still take unclean foods knowing that they are detrimental to our health? Like taking long term poison into our systems. So i said in reply, that altho our food is sanctified & we can take even unclean foods, do we still go out & tempt God by taking them & destroying our health in the process? I hope you get what i mean.
according to your definition of "unclean food containing poison", everything that is put on the table is unclean.... your char kway teow, bak chor mee, chicken rich, roti prata, and nasi lemak will kill you eventually. Do you take all these? Or you have a special diet of manna?
We destroy our health by not taking things in moderation and not exercising, which has got nothing to do with the Leviticus context of unclean food and why in the NT, there is no such prohibition. -
Originally posted by Repented John 2:Precisely, bcos CE said i claim to drink poison & not be harmed, but it's the bible that said this. Jesus Himself said it. I was likening unclean foods to poison since they really poison your systems in the long run. So do we still take unclean foods knowing they harm us? God gave us a mind to think also.
I will never be bold enough to make such a claim, and a claim you did make!Originally posted by Repented John 2:We dont take poison even though we know that when we drink poisonous stuff we will not be hurt. So the same with unclean foods.
So I ask you - what is unclean food in the modern context? high in cholesterol? raw (uncooked) food? high protein diet? the can of Coke with the high sugar content? the maggi mee with the salt? -
not much, especially when eating out.... usually veggie poorly cooked....Originally posted by laurence82:
All meat no veggie meal?
at home got lah.... luv brocolli and mushrooms.. -
So how about genetically modified, non organic food?
Meat of cloned animals? -
on cloned animals, we can worry about them when they comeOriginally posted by laurence82:So how about genetically modified, non organic food?
Meat of cloned animals?
on GM food, no idea, personally, don't mind
on non-organic food, thought we had been eating this all this while, the latest trend is to switch to organic food, right? -
Hello there my friend.Originally posted by shade343:As mention in the book of Leviticus, there are several mentions of what food is "clean" and "unclean". Do you follow the definitions of what is "clean" and "unclean" strictly?
About your question: it is good and profitable for us if we understand the different dispensations God has set for us man. Failure to understand this will result in cofusion as to comprehending the Bible.
For example:
Why has God prohited the Israelites here in eating certain kinds of meat while in Genesis 1:29 we are told that they are to be vegeterian only. No meat at all.
Ge 1:29 "And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food."
And then again in Genesis 9:1-7 we are again told that they can now eat meat:
Ge 9:1 "So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.
2 "And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand.
3 "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.
4 "But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
And then again in the Christian dispensation we are told:
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving;
This does not mean that God is fickle and unstable in His ways. It means, however, that there is a divine program for the ages. Though this is a very lengthy topic to tackle. Let it be enough though that we are now living under the Church Age. And it's precepts towards food is that one there in Timothy.
Like the command to build an ark was commanded to Noah only we are not under these regulations about food and etc.
Heb 9:9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience--
10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
With regards to offerings:
we are not under the sacrificial offerings. WE no longer sacrifice goats and lambs to a priest in this dispensation. Interestingly however, in the dispensation of the coming Mellinium, the sacrifices will be observed and practiced again as prophesied in the Old TEstament.
With regards to taking another human beings life:
In Genesis prior to the flood God absolutely prohibits taking another human beings life, but after the Flood, God allows capital punishment under the governmental aurthority of man.
the point is this:
We are now in the Christian dispensation. And what God has set up with regards to our rule of life in this dispensation we are under duty to fulfill. -
agree absolutely,Originally posted by dumbdumb!:nope. haha.. food is to be enjoyed!!
Enjoyed the food in appreciation of those who cooked for you.
Don't waste food because many ppl do not have enough food, let alone the choice.
Adopt a balanced diet, if you body is in balance. Take more veggie if your cholestero is high, take more meat if your heart is weak. Don't eat if you are not hungry.
On my business trip to Cambodia, I was served prawn and crab caught in the rivers ; in china, cities away from the coast, I eat lamb everyday. When I am back home, I skip lunch, and eat salad when my son eats steak. My choice is not so much what I eat, it is who I have to eat with.
God told Peter 3 times, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." Acts 10:15,16, and Paul already told the churches many times not to argue about what is clean and do not judge those who eat and don't eat.
God's is graceful and His providence is in abundent for everybody, we choose what we need, and we not not need to be a theologist to choose what to eat. -
yeah. last time.. people ate fruits and vege. adam and eve time.
meat was only eaten during noah's time.
clean and unclean food defination was given during moses time through the law.
Jesus made all food ceremonially clean.
God reconfirmed that through the vision that peter received. -
the only food which is forbidden for believers to consume are food which is offered by pagans which is already sacrificed to their gods and idols.
and its got nothing to do with it being unclean or not. its about being a testimony -
teok lah! siew lui!Originally posted by dumbdumb!:the only food which is forbidden for believers to consume are food which is offered by pagans which is already sacrificed to their gods and idols.
and its got nothing to do with it being unclean or not. its about being a testimony -
Hmm...dispensational theology...Originally posted by Ironside:the point is this:
We are now in the Christian dispensation. And what God has set up with regards to our rule of life in this dispensation we are under duty to fulfill. -
wats tt?
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I don't even acknowledge those idols as gods so it is not an issue to me, unless, if they tell me that eat already you will be blessed and have peace, then die die also don't eat.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:the only food which is forbidden for believers to consume are food which is offered by pagans which is already sacrificed to their gods and idols.
and its got nothing to do with it being unclean or not. its about being a testimony
If you are the only Christian in a family who worship all kinds of idols, you will need to be very careful how we declare our stand on such issue. And I think it is better to discuss how we handle such situation rather than what is clean and what is not clean.
If it is unclean for us, then should we throw the food away? Are we allowed to donate what we consider unclean to non believers??? If one's grandmother, the only non-believer in the family, laid chickens and all the food at the tomb of his grandfather during Qingmin, and after that, should the family eat or should they go McDonald and let the grandmother finish up everything, or throw away??
Now chicken and ducks are not safe cause of bird flu; mutton is not safe cause the its fat is bad for heart; beef is not safe cause of mad cow disease; pork is also not safe cause of don't know what; plus residual pesticides, coloring, preservative, ....so what food is clean?? -
Yes, everything is permissble, yes, those 'idols' are just clay/metal...etc ie. man made.
1Cor 10:23-33 (NIV)
"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."
If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake— the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
But in everything we do, we need to consider others as well as the testamonies we are bearing. (NOTE: if we make mistake in this, there is no need to worry, cause when we do fall, there is still enough grace and mercy though the finish work of Christ)
Personally, if its to chose between eating (but risk causing others to 'fall') and wasting food, its clear cut, I rather waste the food. reason is, the person/soul is more important/precious than food. -
Fully agree about the testamonies. What really is important is Why do people fall because of the food you eat, or do not eat.Originally posted by vince69:Yes, everything is permissble, yes, those 'idols' are just clay/metal...etc ie. man made.
But in everything we do, we need to consider others as well as the testamonies we are bearing. (NOTE: if we make mistake in this, there is no need to worry, cause when we do fall, there is still enough grace and mercy though the finish work of Christ)
Personally, if its to chose between eating (but risk causing others to 'fall') and wasting food, its clear cut, I rather waste the food. reason is, the person/soul is more important/precious than food.
I grow up in a non Christian family. I eat food that was served before the tablets of the dead ancestors so that my father would not say that I accepted a foreign religion and forget about the ancestor. I wasted no food so that my father would not say I did not treasure the food that was bought with the money that he worked so hard to earn. do I feel comfortable about the food I ate? I am glad I did, today my parents are both Christians, and they know that being a Christian is not accepting an angmoh religion.
Why should eating something offered to idols can cause others to fall??? I often question that and most christians gave me the answer "better be safe".
Wasting food could be a very bad testimony. the important thing is, What do others think? -
1) its a matter of conscience, some people (myself included) believe that everything is permissible, others believed that this/that is not allowed.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Fully agree about the testamonies. What really is important is Why do people fall because of the food you eat, or do not eat.
I grow up in a non Christian family. I eat food that was served before the tablets of the dead ancestors so that my father would not say that I accepted a foreign religion and forget about the ancestor. I wasted no food so that my father would not say I did not treasure the food that was bought with the money that he worked so hard to earn. do I feel comfortable about the food I ate? I am glad I did, today my parents are both Christians, and they know that being a Christian is not accepting an angmoh religion.
Why should eating something offered to idols can cause others to fall??? I often question that and most christians gave me the answer "better be safe".
Wasting food could be a very bad testimony. the important thing is, What do others think?
so for the latter, especially if they are very young Christian, they may become confused, hence our act though does not affect us, caused them to be burdened unnecessarily
2) I am not born into a Christian family too, when I got baptised (with my parents' approval of course), my parents forbid me from taking part in any of the rituals nor eat any of those offered food, cause they scare later God not happy. For me, I just obey their instruction on this. -
Do you think eating food offered to so called idols will make you unclean?
Why people focus on tangible aspects of being holy, rather than the intangible part, such as clean thoughts and minds?
Kinda makes this whole business damn shallow -
No. They dont teach that. They only advocate healthy eating using the bible as a guide.Originally posted by Repented John 2:You are from SDA background right & they are very strict on these guidelines for food so much so that if Christians eat these foods, they will lose their salvation. -
In my opinion, by not eating you just confirmed your non Christian parents' belief that God would be unhappy if Christians eat food offered in other religious rituals.Originally posted by vince69:1) its a matter of conscience, some people (myself included) believe that everything is permissible, others believed that this/that is not allowed.
so for the latter, especially if they are very young Christian, they may become confused, hence our act though does not affect us, caused them to be burdened unnecessarily
2) I am not born into a Christian family too, when I got baptised (with my parents' approval of course), my parents forbid me from taking part in any of the rituals nor eat any of those offered food, cause they scare later God not happy. For me, I just obey their instruction on this.
I did what I did to keep the communication channel opened, this has enabled me to explain to them many misconceptions about Chrisitainity. New Christians will have much to learn about what pleases God and hope they look for clarifications when confused.
Is it easy to recognise if eating can cause a weak Christian to fall? I am not sure, but i don't intent to pursue this kind of issue further. thanks for the enlightenment. -
Bro,Originally posted by sgdiehard:In my opinion, by not eating you just confirmed your non Christian parents' belief that God would be unhappy if Christians eat food offered in other religious rituals.
I did what I did to keep the communication channel opened, this has enabled me to explain to them many misconceptions about Chrisitainity. New Christians will have much to learn about what pleases God and hope they look for clarifications when confused.
Is it easy to recognise if eating can cause a weak Christian to fall? I am not sure, but i don't intent to pursue this kind of issue further. thanks for the enlightenment.
did I for one moment said what you did was wrong? if there is, I apologise for the mis-comm.
I do understand why you did what you did, nothing wrong with that.
I did what I did out of respect for my parents as they are not comfortable with it. Don't think anything wrong also.
Just different situation calls for different response.
as for whether eating will cause anyone to fall, I can only pray that my actions will not cause anyone to fall.
God Bless. -
Hello there my friendOriginally posted by laurence82:Do you think eating food offered to so called idols will make you unclean?
Why people focus on tangible aspects of being holy, rather than the intangible part, such as clean thoughts and minds?
Kinda makes this whole business damn shallow
1Co 8:8 What we eat, however, will not bring us nearer to God. We lose nothing by not eating this food [offered to idols], and we gain nothing by eating it.
Ro 14:14 Through my union with the Lord Jesus, I know and am persuaded that nothing is 'defiling in itself.' A thing is 'defiling' only to him who holds it to be so.
Ro 14:15 If, for the sake of what you eat, you wound your Brother's feelings, your life has ceased to be ruled by love. Do not, by what you eat, ruin a man for whom Christ died!
Ro 14:17 For the Kingdom of God does not consist of eating and drinking, but of righteousness and peace and gladness through the presence of the Holy Spirit. -
Look at it this way.... holding a joss stick does not make one unclean either. The point in the verses quoted by Ironside (I am glad he did it, 'cos most of you know that I do not like to quote verses) is that there is a public testimony one need to account for when dealing with non-Christians.Originally posted by laurence82:Do you think eating food offered to so called idols will make you unclean?
Why people focus on tangible aspects of being holy, rather than the intangible part, such as clean thoughts and minds?
Kinda makes this whole business damn shallow
If the meaning of holding joss sticks and eating food offered to idols has a different connotation to the other people, we should be mindful of what we do. If the people around us feel that such food is meant for the dead and is an intrinsic part of that worship ritual, then I might want to avoid the food. If the people around me feel that once the ritual is over, food is food, than I have no issue with gobbling down that chicken drumstick.
The motive for whether one should or should not eat food is not for the Christian but for the non-Christian.
In simple English (or Hokkien ) --- tze tong!