Origin of humanity's first sin
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there there. you say until as if God gave the rule to Adam, and noone else. does that mean Eva can eat the apple?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Like I said before, the sin is Adams, because he was given the command and not Eve... so it is still Adams fault and not Eve's and the first sin is really Adams. -
sighhhhhhhhhhh.......Originally posted by Ito_^:there there. you say until as if God gave the rule to Adam, and noone else. does that mean Eva can eat the apple?
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so.. God gave the rule for everyone in the garden, if Eve die die oso wan her apple she wld let Adam know about it? she ate it without Adam's knowledge. u noe la, if a ger sets her mind on something, u think u can prevent it meh?Originally posted by breytonhartge:sighhhhhhhhhhh....... 
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What I meant was, entertainment is an understatement.Originally posted by M©+square:
Some of the stuff here beats Russell Peter..anytime. -
so where is icemoon?
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either you get it or you don't....Originally posted by Ito_^:there there. you say until as if God gave the rule to Adam, and noone else. does that mean Eva can eat the apple?
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no i don't.Originally posted by breytonhartge:either you get it or you don't.... -
Is it just me? Or is he becoming more popular nowadays?Originally posted by laurence82:What I meant was, entertainment is an understatement.
Some of the stuff here beats Russell Peter..anytime.
"Thirty four fitfy!" -
Making ice on the moon?Originally posted by breytonhartge:so where is icemoon?
Nah .. just joking .. I am quite busy nowadays, so may not be able to post as frequently as I hope. -
Just 4 thoughts:
1) If the fruit is not supposed to be eaten, why god didnt remove the tree? Why is he tempting human with the fruit?
2) Looking at the genesis passage, it seems like god lied to adam.. hmm.. u will die if u eat the fruit.. but then, eve didnt die.. hmm.. can lie or not?
3) There are lots of animals that move on the stomach.. including lots of insects.. are they condemn to crawl on stomach too? -
where is your fourth point?Originally posted by earthlings73:Just 4 thoughts:
1) If the fruit is not supposed to be eaten, why god didnt remove the tree? Why is he tempting human with the fruit?
2) Looking at the genesis passage, it seems like god lied to adam.. hmm.. u will die if u eat the fruit.. but then, eve didnt die.. hmm.. can lie or not?
3) There are lots of animals that move on the stomach.. including lots of insects.. are they condemn to crawl on stomach too?
1) this would be a circular arguement, satan tempted man, but not God, also boils down to obedience to God's command which is not to eat the fruit... and till satan(the serpent) tempted eve, they never thought to do it...
2) God did not lie to Adam, did you know that we were created to live forever? Now what is our maximum life span? Read the other chapters of genesis, Adam lived over 900 years old.. as did those that came after him... the youngest to die was about almost 400... we did die... but not in a literal sense, we experienced death in a different way.... before Adam and Eve ate the fruit, we did not have to toil for our food, now we have to work for it... everything became harder... the biggest death was our separation from God...
3) Only the serpent was condemned to crawl on its stomach, the other insects were just created that way... I suppose. -
To add on to breyton's point,Originally posted by earthlings73:Just 4 thoughts:
1) If the fruit is not supposed to be eaten, why god didnt remove the tree? Why is he tempting human with the fruit?
2) Looking at the genesis passage, it seems like god lied to adam.. hmm.. u will die if u eat the fruit.. but then, eve didnt die.. hmm.. can lie or not?
3) There are lots of animals that move on the stomach.. including lots of insects.. are they condemn to crawl on stomach too?
1) Look at it the other way, the whole garden had PLENTY of trees good for food as stated in the bible. Why did not Adam choose to eat from the other trees?
2) the death mentioned here represents 2 kinds of deaths, in my opinion. Before Adam ate the fruit, there was no reason that Adam was subjected to death. In fact, it was stated that God make Adam and Eve for reasons to multiply, to rule and to live. There was no mention that God make them with the intention for them to die someday. Therefore the first death surely represents PHYSICAL DEATH but i believe it was not meant to be an IMMEDIATE DEATH. It means that at the point of disobenience, Adam and Eve now is subjected to sickness, old age and eventually die at some point of their lives - something that was not meant to come when they were created.
Another death was SPIRITUAL DEATH.When they ate the fruit, Adam and Eve’s fellowship with God was immediately cut off, so much so that they would attempt to hide from God. Their sin caused them unspeakable spiritual misery, because as it separated them from the very source of spiritual life, in a very real sense, in that day – in that moment – they died spiritually -
Why apple? Not orange? Hee...
The "rib" have sinned. -
please note, it was never stated to be an apple, it was a fruit... that got turned into an apple by humanity... till today, we still do not know what fruit it was...Originally posted by Eiizumi:Why apple? Not orange? Hee...
The "rib" have sinned. -
ah.. will list down the 4th when i remember..Originally posted by breytonhartge:where is your fourth point?
1) this would be a circular arguement, satan tempted man, but not God, also boils down to obedience to God's command which is not to eat the fruit... and till satan(the serpent) tempted eve, they never thought to do it...
2) God did not lie to Adam, did you know that we were created to live forever? Now what is our maximum life span? Read the other chapters of genesis, Adam lived over 900 years old.. as did those that came after him... the youngest to die was about almost 400... we did die... but not in a literal sense, we experienced death in a different way.... before Adam and Eve ate the fruit, we did not have to toil for our food, now we have to work for it... everything became harder... the biggest death was our separation from God...
3) Only the serpent was condemned to crawl on its stomach, the other insects were just created that way... I suppose.
1) it's circular when you put in satan and serpent. without satan & serpent, there are only 3 entities: god, man and tree.. using the principle of Occam's Razor.. to prevent man from eating the fruit, god should remove the tree..
2) oh.. so everything else in the bible can be interpreted differently ah? so if we did not need to toil for our food, how do u feed ourselves?
3) then why would god be so cruel to condemn some of these insects by creating them in such a way? -
1) Ah.. you must have supported the casino during the debate.. =P the government (or the god)decided to build the casino (or the tree), hence, only those who cant stand the temptation will go (or eve).. but why are christians so anti-casino?Originally posted by gasband:To add on to breyton's point,
1) Look at it the other way, the whole garden had PLENTY of trees good for food as stated in the bible. Why did not Adam choose to eat from the other trees?
2) the death mentioned here represents 2 kinds of deaths, in my opinion. Before Adam ate the fruit, there was no reason that Adam was subjected to death. In fact, it was stated that God make Adam and Eve for reasons to multiply, to rule and to live. There was no mention that God make them with the intention for them to die someday. Therefore the first death surely represents PHYSICAL DEATH but i believe it was not meant to be an IMMEDIATE DEATH. It means that at the point of disobenience, Adam and Eve now is subjected to sickness, old age and eventually die at some point of their lives - something that was not meant to come when they were created.
Another death was SPIRITUAL DEATH.When they ate the fruit, Adam and Eve’s fellowship with God was immediately cut off, so much so that they would attempt to hide from God. Their sin caused them unspeakable spiritual misery, because as it separated them from the very source of spiritual life, in a very real sense, in that day – in that moment – they died spiritually
2) physical death.. hmm, i dont see how the earth could house so many people if there's no death..
4) ah, remember my 4th point.. what's the moral of the story? man should be ignorant? just follow the bible and disregard everything else outside of the bible? -
1) in a nutshell because by going to the casino and gambling, we are tempting God, from the Christian perspective, all things belong to God, even the money we have, so by gambling we are saying to God I am risking Your money and my faith on the hope that You'll 'make it happen" and that is tempting God and it is a sin Deut 6:16 and Luke 4:10-12, besides, gambling can destroy a person becoming an obession and a compultion and can become like alcoholism... gambling teaches people that fame, success and fortune are available without work destroys virtues such as careful spending and hardwork...it gives rise to greed, avarice, sloth.... and makes one short sighted...Originally posted by earthlings73:1) Ah.. you must have supported the casino during the debate.. =P the government (or the god)decided to build the casino (or the tree), hence, only those who cant stand the temptation will go (or eve).. but why are christians so anti-casino?
2) physical death.. hmm, i dont see how the earth could house so many people if there's no death..
4) ah, remember my 4th point.. what's the moral of the story? man should be ignorant? just follow the bible and disregard everything else outside of the bible?
2) that is because you see in the natural and not the spiritual...
4) depends on whether you are a Christian or not, to me as a Christian, the bible is the Living word of God and holds a lot of promises for the believer and whether you believe or not, it works and gives us insight into the mysteries of God. If you read the bible carefully, you will come to realise that everything "outside" the bible as you mention it is talked about in the bible, it says in ecclesiastes 1:9-10 "That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, Ans there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which it may be said "See, this is new?" It has already been in ancient times before us. -
1) but u just argued that "hardwork" is not something planned by god.. it's the destiny that man chose when eve ate the fruit.. so how do u reconcile?Originally posted by breytonhartge:1) in a nutshell because by going to the casino and gambling, we are tempting God, from the Christian perspective, all things belong to God, even the money we have, so by gambling we are saying to God I am risking Your money and my faith on the hope that You'll 'make it happen" and that is tempting God and it is a sin Deut 6:16 and Luke 4:10-12, besides, gambling can destroy a person becoming an obession and a compultion and can become like alcoholism... gambling teaches people that fame, success and fortune are available without work destroys virtues such as careful spending and hardwork...it gives rise to greed, avarice, sloth.... and makes one short sighted...
2) that is because you see in the natural and not the spiritual...
4) depends on whether you are a Christian or not, to me as a Christian, the bible is the Living word of God and holds a lot of promises for the believer and whether you believe or not, it works and gives us insight into the mysteries of God. If you read the bible carefully, you will come to realise that everything "outside" the bible as you mention it is talked about in the bible, it says in ecclesiastes 1:9-10 "That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, Ans there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which it may be said "See, this is new?" It has already been in ancient times before us.
2) again.. spiritual death imply that the death is just a metaphor.. are you suggesting that the bible can be interpreted in "metaphors" and should not be read in it's exact meaning, aren't you questioning the "truth" abt it, since the interpretation of metaphors is subjective? if the bible is indeed the words of god, do you think he will leave it to chance?
4) ah.. i bet they dont have computers when the bible was written.. what say you? -
pai seh hor. im not anti-casino. ever heard of game theory?Originally posted by earthlings73:1) Ah.. you must have supported the casino during the debate.. =P the government (or the god)decided to build the casino (or the tree), hence, only those who cant stand the temptation will go (or eve).. but why are christians so anti-casino? -
simi dai ji?
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Ho sey Boh?!Originally posted by sillyme:simi dai ji?
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game theory .. those who study econs should know.
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not too bad lahOriginally posted by M©+square:Ho sey Boh?!
can't come in as often as i want to though...
but everything in life is good -
What I believed:
Origin of humanity's first sin = disobeying GOD by having doubt in what he said
(Adam and Eve listened to the serpent instead of having faith in GOD). This is the first instance when men turned from their faith and decided that they can control their own destiny and be like GOD, knowing good and evil.
I believed a lot is up to us men. No doubt, we can be tempted. But all of us are responsible for our own actions. By choosing to believe in a serpent and not the LORD, men had fall from grace and death is the consequence. But in Christ, when he gave us his grace this relationship was re-established with GOD. GOD is not and will not be angry with us forever. GOD is patient with us and love us. We just need to have a little faith in him. Even a little faith can grow. Which is why I believed we need to be motivated ourselves to know GOD.
Instead I believe it is men who are always angry with GOD, blaming him for all the wrongs in the world without realising their own actions. -
so humanity's first sin steamed from themselves or the serpent?