Origin of humanity's first sin
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Sorry ah.
Really not used to discussion without the verse. So there you go - the amplified version.
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Genesis 3
1NOW THE serpent was more subtle and crafty than any living creature of the field which the Lord God had made. And he [Satan] said to the woman, Can it really be that God has said, You shall not eat from every tree of the garden?(A)
2And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat the fruit from the trees of the garden,
3Except the fruit from the tree which is in the middle of the garden. God has said, You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.
4But the serpent said to the woman, You shall not surely die,(B)
5For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing the difference between good and evil and blessing and calamity.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good (suitable, pleasant) for food and that it was delightful to look at, and a tree to be desired in order to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she gave some also to her husband, and he ate.
7Then the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves apronlike girdles.
8And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
9But the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, Where are you?
10He said, I heard the sound of You [walking] in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11And He said, Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?
12And the man said, The woman whom You gave to be with me--she gave me [fruit] from the tree, and I ate.
13And the Lord God said to the woman, What is this you have done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled (cheated, outwitted, and deceived) me, and I ate.
14And the Lord God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all [domestic] animals and above every [wild] living thing of the field; upon your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust [and what it contains] all the days of your life.
15And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her [a]Offspring; He will bruise and tread your head underfoot, and you will lie in wait and bruise His heel.(C)
16To the woman He said, I will greatly multiply your grief and your suffering in pregnancy and the pangs of childbearing; with spasms of distress you will bring forth children. Yet your desire and craving will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.
17And to Adam He said, Because you have listened and given heed to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it, the ground is under a curse because of you; in sorrow and toil shall you eat [of the fruits] of it all the days of your life.
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth for you, and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19In the sweat of your face shall you eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return.
20The man called his wife's name Eve [life spring], because she was the mother of all the living.
21For Adam also and for his wife the Lord God made long coats (tunics) of skins and clothed them.
22And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us [the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit], to know [how to distinguish between] good and evil and blessing and calamity; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live [b]forever--
23Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.
24So [God] drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the Garden of Eden the [c]cherubim and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep and guard the way to the tree of life.(D) -
why not? we serve an omnipotent and omnipresent God...Originally posted by Icemoon:But God couldn't possibily spoke to ALL the people right? I mean those people not mentioned.
Aiya .. your second paragraph will draw flames again. There wouldn't be any righteous person today, before Christ imputed His righteousness to the fella? -
the sin of adam was that he was not the proper head of the family and he stood by and let eve get tempted....Originally posted by HENG@:sadly it seems the sin of adam is stupidity. he cannot think for himself.
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but if we are Christians, we know that there is none righteous... only that we are made righteous through Christ...Originally posted by Icemoon:But God couldn't possibily spoke to ALL the people right? I mean those people not mentioned.
Aiya .. your second paragraph will draw flames again. There wouldn't be any righteous person today, before Christ imputed His righteousness to the fella? -
Hmmm.....care to eleborate what do you mean by 'he[Adam] stood by and let eve get tempted'?Originally posted by breytonhartge:the sin of adam was that he was not the proper head of the family and he stood by and let eve get tempted.... -
dp
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is that more justification for your MCP thots? Or are u suffering from the same sin as Adam(stupidity) as well?Originally posted by breytonhartge:the sin of adam was that he was not the proper head of the family and he stood by and let eve get tempted.... -
this is not an MCP view... according to the bible, the man is the head of the household... and therefore holds a very important role, both in terms of providing for the family as well as spiritually, in the bible, the spiritual covering flows this way... from God to man to woman...Originally posted by M©+square:Hmmm.....care to eleborate what do you mean by 'he[Adam] stood by and let eve get tempted'?
adam did not dissuade eve from eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge... and therefore that was his mistake rather... because he KNEW God's commandments... and it was specifically not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge .... -
NO NEED TO BE RUDE... this is a forum, we are just giving viewpoints...Originally posted by HENG@:is that more justification for your MCP thots? Or are u suffering from the same sin as Adam(stupidity) as well? -
MCP viewpoints aren't very well tolerated fortunately.Originally posted by breytonhartge:NO NEED TO BE RUDE... this is a forum, we are just giving viewpoints... -
according to the bible? Whatever's in the bible, taken out of context and only quoting certain parts of a whole, and literally just reading a certain statement, is very inaccurate.Originally posted by breytonhartge:this is not an MCP view... according to the bible, the man is the head of the household... and therefore holds a very important role, both in terms of providing for the family as well as spiritually, in the bible, the spiritual covering flows this way... from God to man to woman...
adam did not dissuade eve from eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge... and therefore that was his mistake rather... because he KNEW God's commandments... and it was specifically not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge ....
Are u speaking of what the Church decree, or what God has decreed? And don't come tell me the bible is God's decree. The bible is MAN's decree, written by the hand of man, tainted by the hand of man, AND claimed to be the word of God. Don't be so quick to explictly trust everything in the Bible as THE word of God.
The Church has for years used the bible to subjudcate women, and I doubt if that is what God wants and I doubt if the bible is exactly the word of God. Certainly a memo from God, the bible is not. It's more like a reporter reporting on an event, different reporters write with different perspectives. What the report says does not change the truth of the event, and choosing to believe any event exclusively from one single report is stupid. and stupidity seems to be Adam's main sin. -
Oei.....Originally posted by Icemoon:Let's take a break from all the bashing, shall we? And we need to maintain some standard, as laurence82 views EH as an entertainment forum.
I will post some topics everyone can contribute, to boost our activity rating with constructive replies and also to get more people to participate. As we can see, the catholic forummers seldom engage in discussions (they like to cut and paste .. damn
) and the views of "moderate" protestants like Chin Eng (btw where is this guy?), M©+square, LazerLordz, gasband etc. are seldom heard. breytonhartge read like he has been brainwashed but at least he dares to stand up to his conviction. 
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dats why i say blame the snake. best, the most u gonna get it a letter from spca not from some marriage lawyer.
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Originally posted by laurence82:Oei.....
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is the man the head of the household before he ate the fruit or after he ate the fruit, or did man and women originally created to complement each other on equal grounds on the basis of ignorance and innocence?Originally posted by breytonhartge:this is not an MCP view... according to the bible, the man is the head of the household... and therefore holds a very important role, both in terms of providing for the family as well as spiritually, in the bible, the spiritual covering flows this way... from God to man to woman...
adam did not dissuade eve from eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge... and therefore that was his mistake rather... because he KNEW God's commandments... and it was specifically not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge ....
because the Bible said, that God gave authority to man over woman (well, according to.. anyways) after they ate the fruit of knowledge and what goes before that? God says Eva as a companion, but never as a subordinate or an inferior species.
therefore, wasn't Eva on equal terms or originally should be on equal terms to Adam? so if Adam had sin, its on his own grounds and concern only on his own weakness not to eat the fruit and fall into temptation himself, and not by not interfering with Eva's temptation.
So Eva's sin are her own, and Adam's are his to bear.
But damm, I'm surprised they didn't get divorced. -
Genesis 2 :15-25Originally posted by M©+square:Hmmm.....care to eleborate what do you mean by 'he[Adam] stood by and let eve get tempted'?
15Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
18And the LORD God said, "It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him." 19Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23And Adam said:
"This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man."
24Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
It is clear from here that the commandment was given to Adam before Eve was taken out of Adam... so that is why I say that Adam is responsible and it is Adam's sin and not Eve's...
See then Genesis 3 : 17
17Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, "You shall not eat of it'
Only Adam was given the command, so therefore by not stopping eve from eating the fruit of the tree of Knowledge... Adam sinned and not eve... -
Some believe that being submissive means to simply obey and to deny personal feelings, desires, expectations, and dreams. They think a wife is not submissive if she shares her opinions with her husband.Originally posted by HENG@:according to the bible? Whatever's in the bible, taken out of context and only quoting certain parts of a whole, and literally just reading a certain statement, is very inaccurate.
Are u speaking of what the Church decree, or what God has decreed? And don't come tell me the bible is God's decree. The bible is MAN's decree, written by the hand of man, tainted by the hand of man, AND claimed to be the word of God. Don't be so quick to explictly trust everything in the Bible as THE word of God.
The Church has for years used the bible to subjudcate women, and I doubt if that is what God wants and I doubt if the bible is exactly the word of God. Certainly a memo from God, the bible is not. It's more like a reporter reporting on an event, different reporters write with different perspectives. What the report says does not change the truth of the event, and choosing to believe any event exclusively from one single report is stupid. and stupidity seems to be Adam's main sin.
Worse, countless women have been sent back to their homes and told to submit to abusive husbands— in some cases without anyone ever speaking to him about how he treats her. Some even believe that wives who are abused cause the abuse by their lack of submission.
This false concept of submission is often used to manipulate and control women. It advocates quiet obedience and subservience, and denies a womanÂ’s irreplaceable value in her marital relationship. It also ignores the potential for a man to be heavy-handed and unloving in his attempt to be the "ruler" of his home.
Unfortunately, some Christian leaders have contributed to this false concept of submission by overlooking the husbandÂ’s obligation to love his wife. This is an extreme misrepresentation of PaulÂ’s intent in Ephesians 5:22-30 .
Others have accused the apostle Paul of being a male chauvinist, one who didnÂ’t respect women or see their value. If we consider what Paul wrote within his culture, however, we see that Paul had a high view of men and women. He understood how they can best work together in marriage to reflect ChristÂ’s love for us.
In a day when men married for money, Paul strongly stated that husbands were obligated to love their wives (see also Colossians 3:19 ). Paul’s words to husbands were revolutionary in Greco-Roman society. Most men married not for love but for financial gain. Marriages were usually arranged, and the father of the bride provided a dowry— a portion of money, clothes, jewelry, and possibly slaves.
Paul’s instructions for marriage were a breath of fresh air. His thoughts were not those of a man who degraded women and wanted to "keep them in their place." Quite the opposite— he elevated women to a place where they are to be loved as Christ loves the church. That is pretty radical thinking!
It is significant that Paul compared a husband and a wife to Christ and the church. He regarded marriage so highly that it is used as an analogy of Christ and His relationship to the church. If the husband is the head of the wife in the same way that Christ is the head of the church, we can safely draw conclusions from the comparison of ChristÂ’s relationship to His bride, the church.
Christ loves His bride and is her Savior. Christ gave His life for her. Likewise, the husband is to love his wife as Christ loves His church. A husbandÂ’s love should be sacrificial, nourishing, cherishing, and protective. A man should love his wife in the same way he loves his own body ( Ephesians 5:25,28 ).
The same level of devotion as required of the husband to love is required of the wife to submit ( Ephesians 5:22 ). Before looking at submission unique to a wife, though, we need to remember that Paul advocates mutual submission between believers ( Ephesians 5:21 ). No one is to demand or force another to yield; submission is voluntary. The Bible doesnÂ’t say that itÂ’s a husbandÂ’s responsibility to see to it that his wife submits to him.
A wifeÂ’s submission to her husband is in response to her love and devotion to the Lord first. She submits to the Lord out of a humble and grateful heart, not because she is a slave, but a servant. Likewise, biblical submission in marriage is servanthood, not enslavement. A godly wife is motivated to submit to her husband, not out of fear, self-interest, or self-protection, but out of love ( 1 Peter 3:6 ).
Scripture does not define submission as mindless obedience to a husbandÂ’s every wish or demand. Nor is it avoiding an argument at all cost. Instead, submission is a deep commitment to a person. It is choosing to work with oneÂ’s mate in a way that promotes oneness. A married couple becomes one flesh and must work as a team ( Genesis 2:26 ). Constant fighting and arguing works against a couple trying to become unified.
To illustrate, a team player must submit to the guidance of his coach. A good coach guides the team in strategy and utilizes the strengths of the players for the success of the team. A gifted player may debate a point with his coach, but there comes a point when, if they continue to disagree, the player must submit to his coach. Likewise, the wife, at times, must put aside her disagreements and follow the lead of her husband, whom God has placed in her life as the head. (Sometimes, it is not in the best interest of either the wife or the husband to submit, as in the case of abuse.)
Marriage, according to GodÂ’s design, is a relationship that returns love for love, service for service. Husbands and wives love and sacrifice for one another differently. Husbands love their wives by protecting, cherishing, and serving them. Wives submit to their husbands out of respect and love. Both the husband and the wife are given vast opportunities to show ChristÂ’s love to one another. It is not always easy, but marriages can best reflect GodÂ’s redemptive work in our lives by following the principles of Christlike love and submission. -
The sin here was disobedience... Adam was the only one God gave the command to. It was his duty to clearly convey the command to Eve. Though Eve was tempted and she tempted Adam as a result, Adam disobeyed God by taking a bite of the fruit.
Therefore, Adam directly disobeyed God who gave him the command. Therefore both he and Eve were punished for disobedience... it is not a matter of Eve's sin... or Adam's sin, they both sinned. -
before you condemn the bible as having a MCP view... please read what it has to say to husbands...
1 Peter 3:7Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
Ephesians 5:28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.
Colossians 3:19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.
Proverbs 31 from verse 10
The Virtuous Wife
10Who[b] can find a virtuous[c] wife?
For her worth is far above rubies.
11The heart of her husband safely trusts her;
So he will have no lack of gain.
12She does him good and not evil
All the days of her life.
13She seeks wool and flax,
And willingly works with her hands.
14She is like the merchant ships,
She brings her food from afar.
15She also rises while it is yet night,
And provides food for her household,
And a portion for her maidservants.
16She considers a field and buys it;
From her profits she plants a vineyard.
17She girds herself with strength,
And strengthens her arms.
18She perceives that her merchandise is good,
And her lamp does not go out by night.
19She stretches out her hands to the distaff,
And her hand holds the spindle.
20She extends her hand to the poor,
Yes, she reaches out her hands to the needy.
21She is not afraid of snow for her household,
For all her household is clothed with scarlet.
22She makes tapestry for herself;
Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23Her husband is known in the gates,
When he sits among the elders of the land.
24She makes linen garments and sells them,
And supplies sashes for the merchants.
25Strength and honor are her clothing;
She shall rejoice in time to come.
26She opens her mouth with wisdom,
And on her tongue is the law of kindness.
27She watches over the ways of her household,
And does not eat the bread of idleness.
28Her children rise up and call her blessed;
Her husband also, and he praises her:
29"Many daughters have done well,
But you excel them all."
30Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing,
But a woman who fears the LORD, she shall be praised.
31Give her of the fruit of her hands,
And let her own works praise her in the gates.
It is clear that the bible does not put women down... it is unfortunately misread by so many people, but those Christians to whom God has given wisdom, will know what God wants done and how to treat women right. -
what about your feminist ones? are they anymore right than mine?... so please do not be rude, we are all adults and as such should behave like adultsOriginally posted by HENG@:MCP viewpoints aren't very well tolerated fortunately.
everybody can have a viewpoint but just because you think you are right, does not mean that your viewpoint is not polarised as well and it does not mean that there are not others out there who would consider your viewpoint wrong..., to have a view point means that we are all polarised in one way or another and that is exactly that, if people would not get so emotional about it and just see this forum for what it is a FORUM, then I think that we can have better interaction... you defend your view point with passion and i do mine... -
I didn't say one of them sinned and the other was sinless. I was saying both of them sin, and even though their sins were the same category, their sins were commited seperatly, individually. So since, the topic is "humanity's first sin", if in chronological order, Eve made the first sin by taking the first bite. You know, first blood!Originally posted by breytonhartge:Therefore, Adam directly disobeyed God who gave him the command. Therefore both he and Eve were punished for disobedience... it is not a matter of Eve's sin... or Adam's sin, they both sinned.
But the flaw for weakness might jolly well be the weakness in Adam's genes. But the action and thought were of Eve's first initiative.
OMG. I sound like a MCP too, but thats how it goes. And Adam, being a natural dumbass like me, decided he would trust Eve more than God, and ate the lovely apple as well.
And so, here we are as descendants of their descendants. Still eating apples, and liking apples, and would probably die for one too.
EDITED PS: But I still prefer blaming the snake. Damm snake!! Cook you for soup arrr!! -
Like I said before, the sin is Adams, because he was given the command and not Eve... so it is still Adams fault and not Eve's and the first sin is really Adams.
Now how can heng say that this is an MCP view.... I blame the man and not the woman... -
AMEN TO THAT... I DO AGREE BLAME THE SNAKE... and we still blame the snake.Originally posted by Ito_^:EDITED PS: But I still prefer blaming the snake. Damm snake!! Cook you for soup arrr!! -
so u are saying the ALL the animals in the garden can makan the apple but not Adam?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Like I said before, the sin is Adams, because he was given the command and not Eve... so it is still Adams fault and not Eve's and the first sin is really Adams.
Now how can heng say that this is an MCP view.... I blame the man and not the woman... -
No I did not say that... what are you making fires when there are none?Originally posted by Ito_^:so u are saying the ALL the animals in the garden can makan the apple but not Adam?