Origin of humanity's first sin
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Let's take a break from all the bashing, shall we? And we need to maintain some standard, as laurence82 views EH as an entertainment forum.
I will post some topics everyone can contribute, to boost our activity rating with constructive replies and also to get more people to participate. As we can see, the catholic forummers seldom engage in discussions (they like to cut and paste .. damn
) and the views of "moderate" protestants like Chin Eng (btw where is this guy?), M©+square, LazerLordz, gasband etc. are seldom heard. breytonhartge read like he has been brainwashed but at least he dares to stand up to his conviction. 
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The common view is, as Ito (was it him?) said, Lucifer tempted Eve so we should blame Lucifer for the plight we are in today.
However, I beg to differ.
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Wah lau....Originally posted by Icemoon:The common view is, as Ito (was it him?) said, Lucifer tempted Eve so we should blame Lucifer for the plight we are in today.
However, I beg to differ.
Always come out with such theological questions.
M© see show. -
I would say that Satan was not at fault. The facts are clear. The snake told Eve about the tree. Eve disobeyed God.
This is my argument - before Eve ate the fruit, she contemplated about eating it. She has sinned? -
Hohoho, I am mentioned!!!! heheheOriginally posted by Icemoon:Let's take a break from all the bashing, shall we? And we need to maintain some standard, as laurence82 views EH as an entertainment forum.
I will post some topics everyone can contribute, to boost our activity rating with constructive replies and also to get more people to participate. As we can see, the catholic forummers seldom engage in discussions (they like to cut and paste .. damn ) and the views of "moderate" protestants like Chin Eng (btw where is this guy?), M©+square, LazerLordz, gasband etc. are seldom heard. breytonhartge read like he has been brainwashed but at least he dares to stand up to his conviction.
Actually, sometimes its better to keep quiet in my opinion. I am a firm believer of evangelism and sharing the faith with others. But well I am not exactly a scholar of sorts. I just believe in God. Of course, if I think I can contribute in any way, I will lah!!!
I think you know the bible more than me ah....hahaha -
Wait for Ito to start presenting his stand first.Originally posted by Icemoon:I would say that Satan was not at fault. The facts are clear. The snake told Eve about the tree. Eve disobeyed God.
This is my argument - before Eve ate the fruit, she contemplated about eating it. She has sinned?
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A related point, this one maybe breytonhartge can answer ..
Before Moses received the Law, what determines whether someone has sinned? Where is the standard?
Like eating non kosher food during Abraham's time is not sinning right? 'cos God never say cannot eat mah -
I agree it was Eve that sinned and later on, Adam sinned too. Everyman is responsible for his own doings, we cannot tell God that it was another person who forced us to sin. We had a free will.Originally posted by Icemoon:I would say that Satan was not at fault. The facts are clear. The snake told Eve about the tree. Eve disobeyed God.
This is my argument - before Eve ate the fruit, she contemplated about eating it. She has sinned?
As for your argument, when she CONTEMPLATED - meaning that she is making a choice - she still has not sinned. Take a look at Matthew 5:28
"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
The key word here is the word "LUSTFULLY". The sin is not committed when we look at a woman - if thats the case - I think we would sin 1000 times a day haha - but when look at the woman and choose to go one step further to lust after her. When the choice is made, that is when we sinned.
Another example, I am very poor. My friend comes up to me and say, Hey, why not you help me sell off this batch of ecsatcy and I will give you $5000. At this point of time, I am given a choice and I have to comtemplate between choices, I believe I have not sinned. But if I go a step further and agree to sell it, then I believe that is sin.
Thats my opinion anyway -
I argue that NO ONE induces the archangel Lucifer to sin .. unless anyone is of the opinion God did.
So i apply the same reasoning to Eve. The capability to sin is already present. -
Yeah God induces no one to sin. The devil can tempt, put thoughts in her mind but only Eve can decide whether or not to go against God.Originally posted by Icemoon:I argue that NO ONE induces the archangel Lucifer to sin .. unless anyone is of the opinion God did.
So i apply the same reasoning to Eve. -
Opps .. I think I wasn't very clear.Originally posted by gasband:The key word here is the word "LUSTFULLY". The sin is not committed when we look at a woman - if thats the case - I think we would sin 1000 times a day haha - but when look at the woman and choose to go one step further to lust after her. When the choice is made, that is when we sinned.
I mean to say before she ate the fruit, she made a decision? The Christian definiton of sin is different from the legal definition of commiting a crime. -
Good point.Originally posted by gasband:Yeah God induces no one to sin. The devil can tempt, put thoughts in her mind but only Eve can decide whether or not to go against God.
But too bad these are opinions/theories.
Hopefully this topic doesn't get too complicated. -
Hohohoho I get what you mean now....Do you mean that just before she ACTUALLY ATE the fruit, the POINT where in her mind, she decides in her mind that she will eat the fruit, whether at that point she sinned?Originally posted by Icemoon:Opps .. I think I wasn't very clear.
I mean to say before she ate the fruit, she made a decision? The Christian definiton of sin is different from the legal definition of commiting a crime.
This is tough. I do not know in those days, but my thinking is this. God is a holy God. When He says something should not be done, He meant that in our words, attitudes, actions and thoughts, we should not do it.
So I am more inclined to say, YES at the point when she decides to eat the fruit, even before she actually does so, she has already sinned. But I would also like to say that if after she decided in her mind to eat but later change her mind not to actually eat the fruit, I would say that is an act of repentance and God would have forgave her sin. But of cos that did not happen -
I would think it goes deeper then that.Originally posted by gasband:Hohohoho I get what you mean now....Do you mean that just before she ACTUALLY ATE the fruit, the POINT where in her mind, she decides in her mind that she will eat the fruit, whether at that point she sinned?
This is tough. I do not know in those days, but my thinking is this. God is a holy God. When He says something should not be done, He meant that in our words, attitudes, actions and thoughts, we should not do it.
So I am more inclined to say, YES at the point when she decides to eat the fruit, even before she actually does so, she has already sinned. But I would also like to say that if after she decided in her mind to eat but later change her mind not to actually eat the fruit, I would say that is an act of repentance and God would have forgave her sin. But of cos that did not happen 
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my stand is i wanna sleep.Originally posted by M©+square:Wait for Ito to start presenting his stand first. -
Alamak! I'm waiting for your great thesis!Originally posted by Ito_^:my stand is i wanna sleep. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
hey icemoon... I am not brainwashed... I speak from my life experience with the Lord, and all that He has blessed me with, if I shared with you my life story, you would know why.... lets just say I am very convicted... how is that?
Let's take a break from all the bashing, shall we? And we need to maintain some standard, as laurence82 views EH as an entertainment forum.
I will post some topics everyone can contribute, to boost our activity rating with constructive replies and also to get more people to participate. As we can see, the catholic forummers seldom engage in discussions (they like to cut and paste .. damn ) and the views of "moderate" protestants like Chin Eng (btw where is this guy?), M©+square, LazerLordz, gasband etc. are seldom heard. [b]breytonhartge read like he has been brainwashed but at least he dares to stand up to his conviction.
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if you read genesis, all the people mentioned before moses had a relationship with God, He spoke with them directly... what determined whether someone sinned or not was whether he obeyed God or not... also see in chapter 19 where God warned about the destruction of sodom and gomorrah, what drew Gods attention was the outcry of sin against sodom and gomorrah...Originally posted by Icemoon:A related point, this one maybe breytonhartge can answer ..
Before Moses received the Law, what determines whether someone has sinned? Where is the standard?
Like eating non kosher food during Abraham's time is not sinning right? 'cos God never say cannot eat mah
but what we have to note here is that God told Abraham about it and Abraham pleaded with God not to destroy sodom and gomorrah for the sake of even 10 righteous... this shows us that God is not just seeking to destroy sinful man, but He is seeking the people who are righteous and will spare sinful man only for the sake of a few righteous....
our God is a God of love and mercy as well.. you know... -
there is also a reason why the Isrealites were told not to eat certain kinds of food... if you research more into the subject, you will understand... example... not eating pork... did you know that pork is the only meat that rots from the inside out and there is no way to tell whether it was clean or safe to eat or not.. God put all the restrictions in place to protect the Jews...Originally posted by Icemoon:A related point, this one maybe breytonhartge can answer ..
Before Moses received the Law, what determines whether someone has sinned? Where is the standard?
Like eating non kosher food during Abraham's time is not sinning right? 'cos God never say cannot eat mah -
But God couldn't possibily spoke to ALL the people right? I mean those people not mentioned.Originally posted by breytonhartge:if you read genesis, all the people mentioned before moses had a relationship with God, He spoke with them directly... what determined whether someone sinned or not was whether he obeyed God or not...
but what we have to note here is that God told Abraham about it and Abraham pleaded with God not to destroy sodom and gomorrah for the sake of even 10 righteous... this shows us that God is not just seeking to destroy sinful man, but He is seeking the people who are righteous and will spare sinful man only for the sake of a few righteous....
Aiya .. your second paragraph will draw flames again. There wouldn't be any righteous person today, before Christ imputed His righteousness to the fella? -
yea sure. blame it on the girl. MCPism at its bestOriginally posted by Icemoon:I would say that Satan was not at fault. The facts are clear. The snake told Eve about the tree. Eve disobeyed God.
This is my argument - before Eve ate the fruit, she contemplated about eating it. She has sinned? -
Off topic again.
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The sin of Eve is disobedience. God already said, "Noooo!!! Don't eat it!!!"
But no.......
Adam and Eve had to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. So that was the first sin.
And God said, "It was not good." -
P.S
And I don't always cut and paste!! -
sadly it seems the sin of adam is stupidity. he cannot think for himself.
