Are drivers of wheelchair-friendly buses allowed to do this?
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
You got a point there. Is just a matter of conflict. The BCs are like the 'role models' of the company and the ambassador to the company. Some BCs would still accept PIWs onboard their buses even though they are on non-WAB services just simply they care about the service they give to the passengers. Some BCs would be strict to the rules while some just ignored them to go the extra mile for the need of their fellow men and i salute them for that.
Just think of sacrifice.
why should BCs be the ones doing the sacrifice? why can't the PIWs sacrifice and take a cab?
this is just like the piority seats on mrt thing, you give up your seat if you feel like it. its your personal choice. you can't expect other people to sacrifice for you because you think you deserve the pity.
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
I just still don't get why these BCs would not want to help. Heartless fellas. I would be the woman to deploy the ramp for the PIW in that situation since it's a good deed to do. I'm not being KPO here.
Anyway, if this incidents were to happen, i would say shame on those authorities who refuse to allow PIWs on WABs either if it's on a WAB-certified services or not.
I must say that SBST should be shameful as they dun allow PIWs on board if buses don't have the WAB sticker. It's really not fair to the PIWs. These WABs are a BLESSING to them, not a TOY for SBST.
quoted from SBST website for your info and this apply to WAB services only.Can other passengers help to operate the ramp?
As it requires some familiarisation to operate the ramp, we would prefer other commuters to help push the wheelchair onto the bus and position them in the designated area. Later, we might embark on a campaign to educate other commuters to operate the ramp to minimise delay.
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Originally posted by sBs_boy:
There was a case recently involving a 57 KUB.
PIW (or the fren) wrote in to complain to the media that he had to wait up to an hour before 1 of the BC allowed him onboard the bus. What happened next was that SBST came out and explain that no PIWs are allowed on Non-WAB routes. What did the kind-hearted BC got ?
Disciplinary actions against the BC who didnt act according to the SOP given by the company.
Then again,
why are u guys blaming SBST (or the BC for the matter) when it is LTA who is the who who decide which service to get green light for WAB ? *Correct me if im wrongthis was being "stomped" before and i think there is a discussion here also.. that time all the AMDEP K230 have put on the WAB logo and got complain. So later on, non-certified WAB services logo were removed. Need to search for the thread again
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pity drivers.
if help, kanna scolded by company. if never help, kanna scolded by public.
let chinaman drive K230UB / B9TL & OC500LE bahs.
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My final word on this after reading through 3 pages of posts...
tintinspartan you've disgraced yourself so badly and shamefully. I'm totally disgusted at your behaviour. I've said it before; you want to show compassion? Go to an old folk's home. This place isn't anywhere for you to show compassion.
You as a bus enthusiast should be sensitive towards BOTH parties and not be one-sided in your comments. If you think being a driver is so easy, think again.
You definitely lack common sense. Above all, you don't know how to show the correct feelings at the correct time. Shame on you.
Please LEARN how to read the entire story before you even open your big mouth. Get the facts right please.
And we as humans also would like to show compassion to the disabled. However we have to (no choice lah) draw a line between what are the boundaries of helping.
I give you a simple theory that the PIWs do not pay the driver for letting them board; but it's the company who pays them. The determining factor henceforth is the driver's salary. When faced with a two-end situation like this, would you like to be compassionate towards a PIW and end up risking losing your job, or be strict with the rules and save your own rice bowl?
Learn to live with the facts, bro.
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You guys still don't get it do you?
People with disabilities are PEOPLE too, so why treat them as "second class"?
What difference does it make if a person with a disability is injured in an accident of whatever description as opposed to a person without a disability? Everybody has equal liability (at least in Australia they do).
In what way does a bus driver need to "handle" a person with a disability apart from deploying the ramp so that they can access the bus? So long as any wheelchair is parked in the appropriate areas, that's all there is to it.From what I can see, most people's arguments in this thread are narrow-minded and selfish. You need to wake up to the FACTS before making any sort of suggestion on this matter. Picture yourself in the position of a person with a disability - particularly one who requires the use of a wheelchair, even if this requirement is temporary.
Plus you people need to learn how not to offend others on sensitive matters such as this.
Regards,
Dave - Your enthusiast with a disability for all those who actually care. -
Originally posted by Powered_By_CNG:
You guys still don't get it do you?
People with disabilities are PEOPLE too, so why treat them as "second class"?
What difference does it make if a person with a disability is injured in an accident of whatever description as opposed to a person without a disability? Everybody has equal liability (at least in Australia they do).
In what way does a bus driver need to "handle" a person with a disability apart from deploying the ramp so that they can access the bus? So long as any wheelchair is parked in the appropriate areas, that's all there is to it.From what I can see, most people's arguments in this thread are narrow-minded and selfish. You need to wake up to the FACTS before making any sort of suggestion on this matter. Picture yourself in the position of a person with a disability - particularly one who requires the use of a wheelchair, even if this requirement is temporary.
Plus you people need to learn how not to offend others on sensitive matters such as this.
Regards,
Dave - Your enthusiast with a disability for all those who actually care.
I think the main factor about this is situation is whether the PIW actually knew if he can 100% board the bus plying Svc 54. Because of the fact they didn't, this whole thing turns very ambiguous. Had they done so nothing of this sort would have happened.Maybe one can blame the authorities, but I believe the PIW has to shoudler some blame too for causing unnecessary delay.
And no, I'm not being discriminatory here, but I believe as a PIW one responsibility of that is to know what routes are there for you to board a bus and what routes not.
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to save all these trouble, SBS and SMRT should only deploy these WAB buses when that service is made a wheel-chair accessible service simultaneously.. like sv21..
why put WAB buses and dont make the service WAB, of course these problems will arise..
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Originally posted by 105090:
to save all these trouble, SBS and SMRT should only deploy these WAB buses when that service is made a wheel-chair accessible service simultaneously.. like sv21..
why put WAB buses and dont make the service WAB, of course these problems will arise..
They have the intention of making the service WAB but time needs to be given to them to modify the bus stops and have certification that the service can be made WAB. -
I think I sense the gist of what is happening in this few pages...
Since Sg has these rules and laws regarding PIW and WAB buses, I think we should not go against these, furthermore, without the BC's authorization, no one should actually touch or operate in anyway, the ramp, bearing in mind that the ramp and equipment are company and public property.
Therefore seeing Dave's reply, I do understand also that Australia has their own laws regarding physically-challenged passengers, same to Hong Kong, they too have more public awareness on these affairs, back then when WABs are introduced to HK, there were also accolades and worries about the new buses. I would gladly say those BCs in HK whom I got in touch before are willing to let PIWs board, as long as where they board and alight do not endanger the PIW him/herself. All buses in HK which are WABs hence carry the international logo proudly.
Returning to Sg, I do sense that there is some time needed for this to be adjusted, time for the companies to adjust to the new vehicles as its still a transition period. From this case, the BC I hope can be seen as not being wrong, but rather following 'by-the-book', in order not to damage company reputation, he refused the PIW to board. And being refused, the passengers and public should not attempt to deploy the ramp. This is all due to safety issue; imagine the safety mechanism failed and the ramp gets dragged while the doors are closed unknowingly by the BC, this would cause further damage...
I believe that the ramps should be first deployed by the bus captain, in the event that he cannot deploy it, you as a member of public can then offer your help, if you are in knowledge, to assist the bus captain in the matter.
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to some of those who still dun understand why BC cannot fetch PIW on a non-WAB service. Let me repeat it FOR THE LAST TIME!!!
Do you think that the BC dun want to fetch PIW?? It's not that they dun want, but they have to follow the rules being set by the upper heads. Do some of you who insist that they SHOULD fetch PIW despite it's not a WAB sv actually knw that alot of bus-stops are actually not wheelchair friendly?? Do you knw that alot of the bus-stops got steps that wheelchair cannot be accessed?? What happens if the PIW injured themselves at these bus-stops?? Then go blame the BC lah for not taking care of the PIW. Or blame the BC for not telling the PIW that the bus-stops are not wheelchair friendly. Then in the end, both parties suffer. Who will gain I ask you?? BC lose the job, PIW sent to hospital.
If the PIW wanna travel, go take the MRT lah. MRT all stations are wheelchair friendly what?? PIW lazy to travel to the MRT ah, ask them to hire a nurse lor to bring them everywhere they want. Why bother to make the BC life so hard??
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Originally posted by Powered_By_CNG:
You guys still don't get it do you?
People with disabilities are PEOPLE too, so why treat them as "second class"?
What difference does it make if a person with a disability is injured in an accident of whatever description as opposed to a person without a disability? Everybody has equal liability (at least in Australia they do).
In what way does a bus driver need to "handle" a person with a disability apart from deploying the ramp so that they can access the bus? So long as any wheelchair is parked in the appropriate areas, that's all there is to it.From what I can see, most people's arguments in this thread are narrow-minded and selfish. You need to wake up to the FACTS before making any sort of suggestion on this matter. Picture yourself in the position of a person with a disability - particularly one who requires the use of a wheelchair, even if this requirement is temporary.
Plus you people need to learn how not to offend others on sensitive matters such as this.
Regards,
Dave - Your enthusiast with a disability for all those who actually care.Unfortunately, here in Singapore, many things which are beneficial to people are being hindered by red tape.
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Originally posted by Oceane:
a) Please LEARN how to read the entire story before you even open your big mouth.
b) I give you a simple theory that the PIWs do not pay the driver for letting them board; but it's the company who pays them. The determining factor henceforth is the driver's salary. When faced with a two-end situation like this, would you like to be compassionate towards a PIW and end up risking losing your job, or be strict with the rules and save your own rice bowl?
c) Learn to live with the facts, bro.
d) You as a bus enthusiast should be sensitive towards BOTH parties and not be one-sided in your comments.
Originally posted by Powered_By_CNG:a) You guys still don't get it do you?
b) From what I can see, most people's arguments in this thread are narrow-minded and selfish. Picture yourself in the position of a person with a disability - particularly one who requires the use of a wheelchair, even if this requirement is temporary.
c) You need to wake up to the FACTS before making any sort of suggestion on this matter.
d) Plus you people need to learn how not to offend others on sensitive matters such as this.
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Originally posted by Powered_By_CNG:
You guys still don't get it do you?
People with disabilities are PEOPLE too, so why treat them as "second class"?
What difference does it make if a person with a disability is injured in an accident of whatever description as opposed to a person without a disability? Everybody has equal liability (at least in Australia they do).
In what way does a bus driver need to "handle" a person with a disability apart from deploying the ramp so that they can access the bus? So long as any wheelchair is parked in the appropriate areas, that's all there is to it.From what I can see, most people's arguments in this thread are narrow-minded and selfish. You need to wake up to the FACTS before making any sort of suggestion on this matter. Picture yourself in the position of a person with a disability - particularly one who requires the use of a wheelchair, even if this requirement is temporary.
Plus you people need to learn how not to offend others on sensitive matters such as this.
Regards,
Dave - Your enthusiast with a disability for all those who actually care.
In the point of view of PIWs from you. Rejection doesn't mean discrimination at all. Discrimination, BC would just tell them "Yucks you go away handicap, I wouldn't want to let you board my bus."My dad allow PIWs, being complain by company. Interesting. Show compassion also complain, reject also complain. So what's wrong with this? You are just showing biasness towards PIWs. Think about why it is needed for WAB certified? To show PIWs there would certainly be WAB buses on that particular service? If there were not to be this, would you like PIWs to wait aimlessly for one?
If you start to let PIWs board non-wab service, misconception of more other things would definitely arise. So if they were to wait for sv54 WAB buses and yet tat day happen to have none, people start blaming that the service with WAB buses is of no use?
And Singapore is in the midst of implementing more WAB buses. All this rejections are just temporary not permanent either.
Everything in Singapore is different from other countries. Not to say rules, even laws are different. If you want to compare with other countries, fight for the change of law in Singapore also.
To end with this, blame the company for this and not BCs. Even you won't want to break rules in your company for others right? So should BCs break rule for PIWs either? You all are also letting BCs in a difficult position either.
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Originally posted by SBS 8030 L:
to some of those assholes who still dun understand why BC cannot fetch PIW on a non-WAB service. Before I start a flame war here (which I've no intention to), let me repeat it FOR THE LAST TIME!!!
Dude, is this how you persaude other people to your cause? Try saying this in front of Dave's face.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Dude, is this how you persaude other people to your cause? Try saying this in front of Dave's face.
so what will happen to me?? Whack me ah?? Ok lah, for the sake of peace I edit it ok =)
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Originally posted by Powered_By_CNG:
You guys still don't get it do you?
People with disabilities are PEOPLE too, so why treat them as "second class"?
What difference does it make if a person with a disability is injured in an accident of whatever description as opposed to a person without a disability? Everybody has equal liability (at least in Australia they do).
In what way does a bus driver need to "handle" a person with a disability apart from deploying the ramp so that they can access the bus? So long as any wheelchair is parked in the appropriate areas, that's all there is to it.From what I can see, most people's arguments in this thread are narrow-minded and selfish. You need to wake up to the FACTS before making any sort of suggestion on this matter. Picture yourself in the position of a person with a disability - particularly one who requires the use of a wheelchair, even if this requirement is temporary.
Plus you people need to learn how not to offend others on sensitive matters such as this.
Regards,
Dave - Your enthusiast with a disability for all those who actually care.PIWs are people too. but in singapore, it is not up to the BCs to allow them board the WAB buses of a service but instead the bus company. if the BCs were given a choice to, which BCs won't allow them to board? i emphasize on this, the BCs are PAID to do their job, and when they are asked not to allow any PIWs onboard if there are WAB buses on a non-WAB service, they are not allowed to. it is the bus company involved which says that this particular service is not officially WAB yet, won't BCs be taking a big risk if they were to allow them onboard? i'm not sure if they allow in australia but in singapore, they certainly won't unless allowed to.
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Originally posted by BusSpeeder:
PIWs are people too. but in singapore, it is not up to the BCs to allow them board the WAB buses of a service but instead the bus company. if the BCs were given a choice to, which BCs won't allow them to board? i emphasize on this, the BCs are PAID to do their job, and when they are asked not to allow any PIWs onboard if there are WAB buses on a non-WAB service, they are not allowed to. it is the bus company involved which says that this particular service is not officially WAB yet, won't BCs be taking a big risk if they were to allow them onboard? i'm not sure if they allow in australia but in singapore, they certainly won't unless allowed to.
Yeah exactly. If one were to be allowed, others would follow. To prevent this, non-wab service are not allowed for PIWs. So it wasn't any BCs fault for rejecting when he is on non-wab service. There's a rule to follow, he ought to abide to the rule. I emphaize this again, rejection doesn't mean discrimination at all. -
Originally posted by BusSpeeder:
PIWs are people too. but in singapore, it is not up to the BCs to allow them board the WAB buses of a service but instead the bus company. if the BCs were given a choice to, which BCs won't allow them to board? i emphasize on this, the BCs are PAID to do their job, and when they are asked not to allow any PIWs onboard if there are WAB buses on a non-WAB service, they are not allowed to. it is the bus company involved which says that this particular service is not officially WAB yet, won't BCs be taking a big risk if they were to allow them onboard? i'm not sure if they allow in australia but in singapore, they certainly won't unless allowed to.
In this situation, I heard of a BC driving sv 36 who encountered a PIW. The BC give a call to the OCC & ask whether he should drive the PIW to orchard rd. Unless the OCC approve, the BC cannot take in the PIW.
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Does anyone rmb the SMB18P thingy? I gave a feedback to SMRT, and my response is this:
Our Ref: BS-CT-0902-0287
Dear Jia Xuan
Thank you for your feedback.
We wish to inform you that our WAB buses are not ready for
wheelchair-bound passenger service yet. It is pending for Land
Transport Authority's approval as there are certain guidelines that we
have to follow. Once it is approval, appropriate logo will be display
on the WAB buses. Public will also be informed thought our publicity.
We thank you for your feedback.
Yours sincerely
Ang Siew Tee (Ms)
Senior Officer, Customer Relations
Corporate Marketing and Communications
SMRT Corporation Ltd -
Originally posted by SBS8033D:
Does anyone rmb the SMB18P thingy? I gave a feedback to SMRT, and my response is this:
Our Ref: BS-CT-0902-0287
Dear Jia Xuan
Thank you for your feedback.
We wish to inform you that our WAB buses are not ready for
wheelchair-bound passenger service yet. It is pending for Land
Transport Authority's approval as there are certain guidelines that we
have to follow. Once it is approval, appropriate logo will be display
on the WAB buses. Public will also be informed thought our publicity.
We thank you for your feedback.
Yours sincerely
Ang Siew Tee (Ms)
Senior Officer, Customer Relations
Corporate Marketing and Communications
SMRT Corporation LtdWhats with their english
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Originally posted by BusSpeeder:
PIWs are people too. but in singapore, it is not up to the BCs to allow them board the WAB buses of a service but instead the bus company. if the BCs were given a choice to, which BCs won't allow them to board? i emphasize on this, the BCs are PAID to do their job, and when they are asked not to allow any PIWs onboard if there are WAB buses on a non-WAB service, they are not allowed to. it is the bus company involved which says that this particular service is not officially WAB yet, won't BCs be taking a big risk if they were to allow them onboard? i'm not sure if they allow in australia but in singapore, they certainly won't unless allowed to.
I agree with you to the statements in bold.
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Originally posted by Oceane:
Whats with their english
must be some part-time just finish O levels boy one...
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Originally posted by sinicker:
must be some part-time just finish O levels boy one...
I dunno leh, Copied word by word de.
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Originally posted by Powered_By_CNG:
You guys still don't get it do you?
People with disabilities are PEOPLE too, so why treat them as "second class"?
What difference does it make if a person with a disability is injured in an accident of whatever description as opposed to a person without a disability? Everybody has equal liability (at least in Australia they do).
In what way does a bus driver need to "handle" a person with a disability apart from deploying the ramp so that they can access the bus? So long as any wheelchair is parked in the appropriate areas, that's all there is to it.From what I can see, most people's arguments in this thread are narrow-minded and selfish. You need to wake up to the FACTS before making any sort of suggestion on this matter. Picture yourself in the position of a person with a disability - particularly one who requires the use of a wheelchair, even if this requirement is temporary.
Plus you people need to learn how not to offend others on sensitive matters such as this.
Regards,
Dave - Your enthusiast with a disability for all those who actually care.
Yes, but everything is different in Singapore. Traffic conditions, commuters and infrastructure constraints are tying our hands.I wish to emphasis that we are not treating PIWs as second class citizens just because they're wheelchair bound.
Dave, as far as we understand, Singapore's bus stops and transport infrastructures are still undergoing revamp to be able to accomodate PIWs and WABs. In the past, most of Singapore's transport infrastructure are built without easy access, due to geological constraints/physical constraints. For example, Woodlands Regonal Interchange wasn't built to accomodate PIWs at all, it was not built with lifts for PIWs if they alight at the interchange. We'd love to have Singapore barrier free in a few more years time.
As i've noted in my previous posting, we're currently undergoing changes to make Singapore barrier free for everybody, not just in the transport sector. Our housing here were also not built with disability people in mind in the past, but have undergone renovations and constructions to build ramps for easy accessibility, tactile tiles for the vision-challenged etc.
And yes the ruling is temporary. Several factors are in play here. Pardon me but it's not simply just using the ramp and parking the PIW at the PIW slot.
- PIW training is a prerequisite by SBST/SMRT.
- untrained BCs may not know how to drive with an unfamiliar passenger type on board (PIW). An untrained BC have to pay extra attention for both the PIW and traffic conditions. The wheelchair needs to be secured, the PIW needs to hold the railing etc.
- Infrastructure constraints -alighting bus stop unable to accomodate ramp, and we're not talking about one or two bus stops on an uncertified bus route. the bus may hit the kerb. revamp comes in.
- We have several bus routes and each of them need to be undergoing trial for WAB certification, and it takes time, keeping in mind that some parts of Singapore's bus stops are still not unable to accomodate PIW boarding/alighting. yes, there are publicity about having WABs being brought in, but the extent of this publicity is to let the public know that SMRT/SBST are improving the standards of travel with new WAB low floor buses.
yep. Dave, its company ruling, and they have it for a purpose, and the purpose has nothing to do "People with disabilities are PEOPLE too, so why treat them as "second class". It's there so that the PIWs need not inconvenience themselves if they wish to alight at a bus stop that's unable to accomodate them. FYI, some bus stops still have steps which a ramp is difficult/dangerous to deploy.
Keep in mind, WAB buses aren't just for the convenience of PIWs, its for the convenience of everyone. Mothers with children, the elderly, people with difficulties, us etc. Why i am emphasising it is because "Being low floor improves the accessibility of the bus for the public, particularly the elderly or infirm, or those with push chairs, and increasingly, those in wheelchairs" according to wikipedia and my feelings regarding WAB. The fact here i believe is now the general misconception that WAB buses must be on WAB routes and must take PIWs regardless...which isnt the case the public transport operators here are thinking.