Are drivers of wheelchair-friendly buses allowed to do this?
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Haiz, then if that's the case......................
I am speechless about the matter. I really felt like having a protest but what's the use? They'll just keep on 'punishing' the BCs.
''Where is the love?''
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
I am trying to fight for the PIWs, understand?
You have to understand that there are constraints and limits and changes will be gradual. We are all currently in the middle of a revamp of Singapore being PIW- friendly/ elderly friendly for an aging population. That means some can, some still cannot.BCs have responsiblities too. not simply out of compassion, but they also must have the necessary skills to handle a PIW on board their buses. That's where BC's PIW training kicks in.
Infrastructure wise, there are efforts being taken to improve for the PIWs. so far, most lifts at MRT stations are already operational (apart from Bouna Vista afaik.). Bus stops are being improved on to accomodate the WABs.
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Too bad, SBST isn't flexible, you know, they are able to save money if there are lesser WAB svcs. If the bus stop is not suitable for PIW boarding and alighting, they can always, move a little bit forward until it's suitable and they could just alight. For example, bus stops with steps. It's also jus on whether the BC wanna take the responsibilities if anything happens.
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Originally posted by TIB537B:
You have to understand that there are constraints and limits and changes will be gradual. We are all currently in the middle of a revamp of Singapore being PIW- friendly/ elderly friendly for an aging population. That means some can, some still cannot.BCs have responsiblities too. not simply out of compassion, but they also must have the necessary skills to handle a PIW on board their buses. That's where BC's PIW training kicks in.
Infrastructure wise, there are efforts being taken to improve for the PIWs. so far, most lifts at MRT stations are already operational (apart from Bouna Vista afaik.). Bus stops are being improved on to accomodate the WABs.
You got a point there. Is just a matter of conflict. The BCs are like the 'role models' of the company and the ambassador to the company. Some BCs would still accept PIWs onboard their buses even though they are on non-WAB services just simply they care about the service they give to the passengers. Some BCs would be strict to the rules while some just ignored them to go the extra mile for the need of their fellow men and i salute them for that.
Just think of sacrifice.
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
Haiz, then if that's the case......................
I am speechless about the matter. I really felt like having a protest but what's the use? They'll just keep on 'punishing' the BCs.
''Where is the love?''
OK. Let's treat BCs as a piece of shit. Let everyone scold and yell at. They are not human at all. You want them do what things also can. In the end, nothing beneficial to them. They do depend on this job for family. Please. -
Originally posted by tintinspartan:
You got a point there. Is just a matter of conflict. The BCs are like the 'role models' of the company and the ambassador to the company. Some BCs would still accept PIWs onboard their buses even though they are on non-WAB services just simply they care about the service they give to the passengers. Some BCs would be strict to the rules while some just ignored them to go the extra mile for the need of their fellow men and i salute them for that.
Just think of sacrifice.
Seriously, if one BC allow, the PIW would think that this service allow for PIW. So is the BC helping or worsening the situation? PLEASE if you understand what is extra mile, this isn't any correct way to do it by not complying to the rule. Doing extra mile must comply to the rule and doing extra things for communters. Like offering a tissue for communters who sneeze is doing extra mile. -
Originally posted by tintinspartan:
You got a point there. Is just a matter of conflict. The BCs are like the 'role models' of the company and the ambassador to the company. Some BCs would still accept PIWs onboard their buses even though they are on non-WAB services just simply they care about the service they give to the passengers. Some BCs would be strict to the rules while some just ignored them to go the extra mile for the need of their fellow men and i salute them for that.
Just think of sacrifice.
lol. some BCs will accept PIW despite the non-WAB services...im just wondering will there be PIWs who will take this as a general misconception there will be such "great" BCs and will get a shock when they want to do board a WAB bus on a non-certified service but this time round get rejected. -
Originally posted by Simple_boi:
Seriously, if one BC allow, the PIW would think that this service allow for PIW. So is the BC helping or worsening the situation? PLEASE if you understand what is extra mile, this isn't any correct way to do it by not complying to the rule. Doing extra mile must comply to the rule and doing extra things for communters. Like offering a tissue for communters who sneeze is doing extra mile.
I only touched on the short-term effects. Looks like we are debating about the matter.You and I are different. So pls, let's peacefully end our debate.
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
I only touched on the short-term effects. Looks like we are debating about the matter.You and I are different. So pls, let's peacefully end our debate.
Next time know your work before saying so much things. Simple stuff like extra mile also get misconception. Seriously, i doubt your basic knowledge. Study harder please. -
Originally posted by Simple_boi:
Next time know your work before saying so much things. Simple stuff like extra mile also get misconception. Seriously, i doubt your basic knowledge. Study harder please.
i have to chip in too. tintinspartan needs to see the bigger picture too. yep. -
Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
You guys are bus fanatics, and thus you know the difference. Other people who do not have to ferry around a wheelchair-bound person regularly or any interest don't. Some folks are wheeled around for only a while, say after surgery or some other treatment.
Is there really enough to tell the uninitiated all this? What I witnessed says otherwise, which is why I made the suggestion about decals for such buses.
Think about it, and then consider the attitudes some of you have displayed.
if a service was to be officially WAB, they will announce it in other means. the BC keeping the WAB decal which should be placed on the windscreen already meant that the service the bus is on is not certified to pick up the PIWs yet. the BCs are paid to do their job, and when SBST and SMRT says they can't ferry such passengers, the BCs will have to follow what they say. not up to the BCs or even the PIWs to decide.
having to carry a wheelchair-bound person is tiresome, but have any of the PIWs ever thought about the BCs? they, having to support their family with the amount of money they earn, having to endure such incidents that can be avoided, and yet i see or hear little PIWs (not referring to this case) who doesn't show a sense of gratitude to the BCs.
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If SBST is so insistent on whether the route is declared WAB or not, then they have an obligation to pool the WAB buses together where possible to have more of these routes and not scatter them around. LTA/MOT paid for these ramps with taxpayer's money, they want these buses on routes where it's needed most, and it's a waste of money if they are not used for their intended purpose.
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Guys, just wanna make a point here that WAB buses that are brought in on non-WAB services can also mean that the buses are catering other types of passengers, e.g. the elderly, children and people with difficulty boarding the bus (e.g. people with slight injuries to their leg but still can walk) , not just PIWs.
I view the WAB buses on non-certified routes as Super Low Floor/easy access buses instead, till they get certified properly to carry PIW. We all have a part to play and work hand in hand with SBST/SMRT and LTA. the "no PIW on WABs that are on non-certified routes" is only temporarily...not permanently.
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
I only touched on the short-term effects. Looks like we are debating about the matter.You and I are different. So pls, let's peacefully end our debate.
eh uncle, do u knw why the bc dun wanna take up the PIW or not?? If u still dunno after all the flamings then u really gone case la. Shame on u man!!!
By anyhow take up PIW, their bus-stop may not be wheelchair friendly and wad happens if the PIW wanna alight at that bus-stop & happens that it is not a wheelchair friendly bus-stop?? The PIW might have a high chance of risking their safety. And when that happens, our dear BC kenna blamed. U think this is fair?? Just because of pitying a PIW and cause a BC to lose his job or kena statement?? Or even affect his promotion just because of breaking a rule?? Its the same as a teacher asking a student not to smoke in the school despite the student is in a legal age.
U want ppl to respect u & yet, u post nonsense. U dunno anything then u come here and kay qiang. U dunno anything & u kay qiang, u really ah gong ah le!!!!
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Originally posted by SBS 8030 L:
eh uncle, do u knw why the bc dun wanna take up the PIW or not?? If u still dunno after all the flamings then u really gone case la. Shame on u man!!!
By anyhow take up PIW, their bus-stop may not be wheelchair friendly and wad happens if the PIW wanna alight at that bus-stop & happens that it is not a wheelchair friendly bus-stop?? The PIW might have a high chance of risking their safety. And when that happens, our dear BC kenna blamed. U think this is fair?? Just because of pitying a PIW and cause a BC to lose his job or kena statement?? Or even affect his promotion just because of breaking a rule?? Its the same as a teacher asking a student not to smoke in the school despite the student is in a legal age.
U want ppl to respect u & yet, u post nonsense. U dunno anything then u come here and kay qiang. U dunno anything & u kay qiang, u really ah gong ah le!!!!
I dunno what to say for now.
It's just that life is so complicated, that's all. I am learning and investigating the topic that was discussed. What we had just now was a debate. I dun think what i say is nonsense. Seriously. That is what a non-busfan would say about the matter. I am on their side but again, life is complicated.
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
I dunno what to say for now.
It's just that life is so complicated, that's all. I am learning and investigating the topic that was discussed. What we had just now was a debate. I dun think what i say is nonsense. Seriously. That is what a non-busfan would say about the matter. I am on their side but again, life is complicated.
u are making our lives here more complicated. Just go back to sleep already.
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Originally posted by tintinspartan:
I dunno what to say for now.
It's just that life is so complicated, that's all. I am learning and investigating the topic that was discussed. What we had just now was a debate. I dun think what i say is nonsense. Seriously. That is what a non-busfan would say about the matter. I am on their side but again, life is complicated.
since u are on those "non-busfan" side, then why dun u go join them & not disturb us. I can 100% assure u that almost all of the bus fans here would be very happy about that.
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Originally posted by Simple_boi:
Seriously, if one BC allow, the PIW would think that this service allow for PIW. So is the BC helping or worsening the situation? PLEASE if you understand what is extra mile, this isn't any correct way to do it by not complying to the rule. Doing extra mile must comply to the rule and doing extra things for communters. Like offering a tissue for communters who sneeze is doing extra mile.Here's something to think about. No reply is needed for this thought experiment :
What if BC actually allowed the PIW and he (or a relative/friend of his) wrote a commendation letter to the media?
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Here's something to think about. No reply is needed for this thought experiment : What if BC actually allowed the PIW and he (or a relative/friend of his) wrote a commendation letter to the media?
That would be a totally different story and from my experiences, this has yet to happen. -
Originally posted by sgbuses:
Here's something to think about. No reply is needed for this thought experiment : What if BC actually allowed the PIW and he (or a relative/friend of his) wrote a commendation letter to the media?
At least this would in return shows the PIW's gratitude towards the BC. However, BC sure would be still reprimanded due to safety precautions either. -
Originally posted by tintinspartan:
You got a point there. Is just a matter of conflict. The BCs are like the 'role models' of the company and the ambassador to the company. Some BCs would still accept PIWs onboard their buses even though they are on non-WAB services just simply they care about the service they give to the passengers. Some BCs would be strict to the rules while some just ignored them to go the extra mile for the need of their fellow men and i salute them for that.
Just think of sacrifice.
You are simply very naive in your thinking.I think i'll have to echo some of what the rest said earlier as i scanned thru their replies.
Both scenarios will relate to a WAB on a non-PIW certified service and what happens for the BC after seeing a PIW at a bus stop with even gradient.
1. BC helps the PIW by letting him/her board the bus though its not certified > PIW appreciative of the matter > Fellow commuter ask newspaper/SBST directly about this > SBST will reprimand BC > BC MAY lose job due to this or educate BC to check WAB decal
2. BC does not help PIW > Friend of PIW complain > driver insist not to ferry cos not certified > PIW/friend complain to newspaper/SBST > SBST will issue a reply saying its not a WAB service so cannot ferry any > PIW/friend got arrowed again.
It is because of the complain nature by us, as well as not wanting to incur more cases/manpower hours/paperwork because of this, it would be more advisable not to declare PIW friendly unless its done illegally.
Life is complicated my boy. More like your life is too simple. Goes to show you haven't grown up yet. If you want compassion, be prepared for the arrows. If not, just follow law. You first day live in Singapore ah? Just as much as I hate certain procedures whenever I work, I have no choice sometimes but to work with it, work around it, or override the work. hahaha...
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Here's something to think about. No reply is needed for this thought experiment :
What if BC actually allowed the PIW and he (or a relative/friend of his) wrote a commendation letter to the media?
There was a case recently involving a 57 KUB.
PIW (or the fren) wrote in to complain to the media that he had to wait up to an hour before 1 of the BC allowed him onboard the bus. What happened next was that SBST came out and explain that no PIWs are allowed on Non-WAB routes. What did the kind-hearted BC got ?
Disciplinary actions against the BC who didnt act according to the SOP given by the company.
Then again,
why are u guys blaming SBST (or the BC for the matter) when it is LTA who is the who who decide which service to get green light for WAB ? *Correct me if im wrong -
posted in error - deleted
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Originally posted by sBs_boy:
There was a case recently involving a 57 KUB.
PIW (or the fren) wrote in to complain to the media that he had to wait up to an hour before 1 of the BC allowed him onboard the bus. What happened next was that SBST came out and explain that no PIWs are allowed on Non-WAB routes. What did the kind-hearted BC got ?
Disciplinary actions against the BC who didnt act according to the SOP given by the company.
Then again,
why are u guys blaming SBST (or the BC for the matter) when it is LTA who is the who who decide which service to get green light for WAB ? *Correct me if im wrongI'm a lazy guy, who has basically scanned through the replies in this thread. This is the only reply which has hit the nail on the head.
Think about it. MOT, through LTA is paying SBST and SMRT Buses for the manual ramp. They have make it a law that from now on (actually that day a few years ago, amybe 2 or 1 year??), all public bus purcahsed must be accessible to the pysically challenged people. SBST and SMRT annouced that they would start replacing all old buses with this new type of buses progressively, until 2017.
When SBST bought in the first B9TL, what did they do? Annouce that this is a "Wheelchair Accessible Bus" in front of the media and public. This was in cooperation with LTA.
When SBST bought in the scania K230UB, they also did the same thing.
This also happened to SMRTBuses when they annouced the OC500LE at NUS (or was it NTU??).
If you are the public, what is your perception? These 200 B9TL and 500 scania K230UB are "WAB" buses, which physically challenged people are able to access.
However, SBST and SMRTB, after feedback from the public and LTA, decided that until the infrastructure (interchanges, bus stops, terminals) are made BFA (Barrier Free Access under BCA code), the services not designated as "WAB" which uses the B9TL and K230UB would not be letting PIW board.
But the public already know these buses as WAB, so when 1 comes round, which is NOT "WAB" certified, the BC / SL hands are tied.
The posts above me has already had a great debate over whether the BC should / shuld not let the PIW board. I don't want to add to it, as it is fruitless to debate it here, while the authorities have made a mistake in the publicity plans of this.