Originally posted by TIB1062Y:I also got think of the 10min max freq... Actually by right now that they have more buses than before, they should have already improved their frequency especially for high demand services.. And "1 DD = 2 SD" would means that they need to find even more drivers...
Yeah, but it's for more of DD svcs with not very very high demand (ie full seating and a few standing on DD) can do that, but for manpower wise, that's another issue that will sure arise.
DD with same amount of freq = not fully utilised, earn lesser, dun think they would wan that
DD exchange with more SDs = not enough manpower or costs too much
DD with lousier freq, but can cut cost = fully utilise, but end consumer won't be happy about the freq
Originally posted by ngjy22:Of course, longer frequency = more pax boarding, if like that, those svcs with DD, I rather they take off DD and double the amount of buses (ie 1 DD = 2 SD) to boost the frequency
I don't agree taking away the DD idea. They should buy more DDs instead to cater our overpopulated population, just like HK.
I'll rather they intorduce more DDs, having a standard 15 mins interval (5-12 mins for super high demand services), running on dedicated bus lanes and guided bus systems. Bus operators provide timetables for the services and commuters take the initaitive to plan their journeys before hand. Buses should of course be 99.9% punctual.
This benefits both commuters and bus operators.
Commuters:
- know the exact timings of the bus coming to the bus stop (+/- 1 min)
- faster and uninterrupted trips
- more chances of getting a seat and board onto the bus. Comfort wise, a notch up.
- allow them to plan their journey when they know the timings.
Operators:
- Require less drivers and thus lower operational costs
- Less brunching. Imagine the number of buses brunching if intervals are 10 mins and wasting resources when there are empty buses. More operating costs??? Service 27 is a fine example.
- Less space for depots, since there are lesser number of buses. Save costs for operators as well.
- DDs takes up less space for our space limited roads while carrying more people.
If you want to say that not all places are DD friendly, look at the airport services in HK and compare it with Singapore. It just depends whether the authorities wants to commit or just talk only.
Originally posted by TIB1062Y:I also got think of the 10min max freq... Actually by right now that they have more buses than before, they should have already improved their frequency especially for high demand services.. And "1 DD = 2 SD" would means that they need to find even more drivers...
I already find some of the bus services improving their frequecies recently from our bus operators.
But don't bank your hopes too high when LTA takes over the bus planning next year. At the rate they are going, most likely they will be screwing up the bus system here more in future.
Originally posted by tvcnq:
4) Not enough WAB buses. I rmb last time someone complained to ST forums that he waited more than 1 hour for a Svc 7 WAB at Botanical Gardens bus stop. So if SBST cannot commit the required number of buses, it will not be a WAB service.
This point has been solved by increasing the quota of WABs on its current WAB services.
Additions are:
K230 on 2, 7, 12, 21, 147, 196 and soon to be 198 (quoted from redeployment thread)
7422 7442 on 21
7439 on 72
7433 7495 on 196
8434 8140 on 51
8435 on 174
extra K230s on WAB services with full K230 fleet as WABs
Originally posted by vicamour:Saw the entire thread on this topic. Just to share my view.
So what is LTA doing??? Taking their own sweet time??? Wasting money on those useless digital timing panels in city bus stops which proved unreliable and inaccurate most of the times, instead of investing the money to improve WAB facilities on bus stops/interchanges first??? Think about it, bus operators are already buying so much WAB buses in bulk, and now they are still waiting for LTA to allow WAB buses to fully perform their intended purposes. Isn't LTA being very inefficient here???
If LTA had planned earlier for public transport to cater disabled commuters, they should have done all these long time back, before allowing bus operators to bring in WAB buses in the first place. All these years, they just talk and talk only, but actually working on to bring in the facilities, what are they actually doing???
All these should be done many years ago already, when LTA was upgrading the bus stops island wide many years back. Not just upgrading the bus shelters, sheltered walkways but also should have planned to make these bus stops more WAB friendly in the first place. Howvever, no. I am quite surprised that some of the new bus stops still have steps on sloped bus stops. If the terrain does not allow the WAB friendly access to the bus stop, surely they can build a ramp (like those found with the staircases of housing estates) to allow PIWs to access the bus stops easily while bus stops still can be WAB friendly. Slopes and uneven terrains are just excuses for their half hearted commitment to improve the accessibility of the disabled people to bus stops.
just sidetrack a bit.. What if say LTA has problems finding contractors to do all these infrastructural upgrading? Construction industry fault? or still government's fault for concentrating too much on IR?
In that sense there are many contractors around to provide ppl less the one doing the IR. Unless construction industry is short of manpower as well.
Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:There is no right or wrong in this entire fiasco... I mean, if drivers are given orders to not stop for PIWs, they can't be wrong right?
If only everyone gives and takes a bit, a lot of this kinda complains won't happen...
Give Economic Restructuring Shares, give GST Credits, give corporate tax cut
Take more GST due to % increase, take our road tax despite it going down cos vehicle population is up, take our ERP money.
bla bla bla... and on and on and on..
sigh..
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Originally posted by Fryderyk HPH:The government has already bungled up on this one. Prolly they should have started work even before they implemented the rule. The construction industry is not doing well(for the last 2~3 yrs), they could have started with it long ago(and also boosted the construction industry, am I wrong?).
construction industry not doing well for the past 2-3 years? did i see wrongly? only from the last few months right?
Originally posted by service_238:just sidetrack a bit.. What if say LTA has problems finding contractors to do all these infrastructural upgrading? Construction industry fault? or still government's fault for concentrating too much on IR?
In that sense there are many contractors around to provide ppl less the one doing the IR. Unless construction industry is short of manpower as well.
Firstly, if LTA are able to find contractors to build new bus stops and upgrading bus stops in the first place, surely these contractors are able to build WAB facilities as well too during the mass bus stops upgrade, right??? And if LTA had planned all these WAB and PIW services better earlier on, would they have problems in engaging contractors before the ultimate deadlines???
Secondly, I am sure that LTA had partnerships with many contractors after so many years of existence and so many projects sourced to these contractors. So I don't really think they had problems in engaging a contractor in the first place unless they screwed up, etc, offering unreasonable prices for the projects.
And please seperate the issue from IRs. IRs are big projects, most likely they will be taken up by very big construction companies. Fyi, most of the construction projects by the government are offered at low cut throat prices. Construction firms are not making huge profits for these projects. So they have to consider whether taking up the project is feasible or not. Smaller projects like this are more often taken up smaller construction firms which are more than the bigger firms in numbers. Bigger firms mostly won't take these projects as they are inprofitable. They actually make losses instead. Heard all these from my friend in Civil enginnering.
Originally posted by lemon1974:construction industry not doing well for the past 2-3 years? did i see wrongly? only from the last few months right?
Actually it might be more than that. Look back and see how many construction firms had gone bankrupted and how many projects got delayed because of all these for the past few years. Remember the Telok Blangah viaduct delay???
That is why the government keeps on building things and building things that keeps the industry afloat.
Originally posted by TIB1062Y:
And if compared HK with SG, SG is still way too far far away from HK in terms of the service standards, qualities, in almost every area...
And if compared to undeveloped countries, they are even way too far to match up with Singapore transport and people willl start migrating to Singapore? ? So what's the point of comparing with other countries? You guys just want to use a better ones to compare to Singapore.
wab so mafan. waste pax time, waste bc time, waste bc energy, bc must stop very near to the bus stop.
I spoke to a driver, whom name and service I wouldn't want to mention due to privacy..
I asked him because he drove and OC before, so I asked what will he do if he saw a PIW wanting to board his bus
So he said, I let him in.
I asked, I read the forum, the letter from SMRT says buses cant take in PIW users because they arent certified and there is no logo yet..
So he said, Yeap, it's true. But I just let the PIW user to come in. Most passengers helped him to push the PIW up the ramp..
Overall: what i can say about this is that, they are not allowed to bring in PIW in non-certified WAB buses. But, it may depends on the driver..
sorry if i had listed things that are wrong, but im trying to get some information abt WAB buses and PIW users...
Originally posted by vicamour:
Firstly, if LTA are able to find contractors to build new bus stops and upgrading bus stops in the first place, surely these contractors are able to build WAB facilities as well too during the mass bus stops upgrade, right??? And if LTA had planned all these WAB and PIW services better earlier on, would they have problems in engaging contractors before the ultimate deadlines???
is it even the ultimate deadline yet? i see in no way that it is reaching there yet, though they are slow in their works and could have started it earlier. you won't know if there's lack of contractors until they start to engage them before/after the WAB and PIW services have been implemented because they might all be taken up to do other projects.
To all:
WAB service as follows: 2, 7, 12, 14, 21, 51, 64, 72, 76, 80, 123, 130, 143, 147, 174, 183, 185, 196, 198, 199, 232 & 268. Other than that, Bus Captains have the right to refuse any PIW to board. PERIOD. no point arguing. law by law.
My ganjie's best friend drove 154 splitters K230UB, PIW wanted to board, PIW was told he could not board next time and that he would be rejected by other drivers, PIW nodded understandingly.
the driver, himself, decided to carry PIW pax off the wheelchair, with my help onto the granny seat, then i folded the wheelchair and brought it onboard. and did the same upon alighting. this is what i call going the extra mile.
Originally posted by ngjy22:Yeah, but it's for more of DD svcs with not very very high demand (ie full seating and a few standing on DD) can do that, but for manpower wise, that's another issue that will sure arise.
DD with same amount of freq = not fully utilised, earn lesser, dun think they would wan that
DD exchange with more SDs = not enough manpower or costs too much
DD with lousier freq, but can cut cost = fully utilise, but end consumer won't be happy about the freq
Yes, but some routes cannot utilise DDs at all.
Actually was the lifespan of the old buses also considered during this whole debate? The new buses have to replace the old buses after their 17 years. I'm starting to think the debate have to consider this too, regarding infrastructures and stuffs. Only recently were there major retirements/fleet renewal to bring in B9TLs, K230UBs and OC500LEs with major technological and fuel advances with Zero Step over the B10Ms and N113s they are replacing. Unless SMRT and SBST had started to replace all their buses which are still roadworthy at 10/11 years where the first low-floor bus is making their debut, which most bus fans will also find it doesnt make sense...we'll already have most infrastructures and bus stops WAB accessible now.
So during the 17/19 years, mostly still having a fleet of high step buses, and saying that LTA can do tests with specifications and stuffs, i find it odd. Most infrastructures were built to accomodate high step buses in the past, including depots. They'll need a demonstrator anyway, because real world tests yeilds solid results that cannot be denied. Not just the tests at bus stops, there are various tests such as the climate and weather among others.
Originally posted by SBS9888Y:To all:
WAB service as follows: 2, 7, 12, 14, 21, 51, 64, 72, 76, 80, 123, 130, 143, 147, 174, 183, 185, 196, 198, 199, 232 & 268. Other than that, Bus Captains have the right to refuse any PIW to board.
My ganjie's best friend drove 154 splitters K230UB, PIW wanted to board, PIW was told he could not board but the driver decided to carry PIW pax off the wheelchair, with my help onto the granny seat, while i folded the wheelchair and brought it onboard. this is what i call going the extra mile.
there's always the red tape regarding the matter of whether PIW's can board or not. but this is a good way to circumvent the matter. in a sense, both parties are happy. the PIW gets on his way, and the bc gets to keep his job.
congrats to the bc who went the extra mile for service. keep it up.
Originally posted by SBS9888Y:To all:
WAB service as follows: 2, 7, 12, 14, 21, 51, 64, 72, 76, 80, 123, 130, 143, 147, 174, 183, 185, 196, 198, 199, 232 & 268. Other than that, Bus Captains have the right to refuse any PIW to board. PERIOD. no point arguing. law by law.
My ganjie's best friend drove 154 splitters K230UB, PIW wanted to board, PIW was told he could not board next time and that he would be rejected by other drivers, PIW nodded understandingly.
the driver, himself, decided to carry PIW pax off the wheelchair, with my help onto the granny seat, then i folded the wheelchair and brought it onboard. and did the same upon alighting. this is what i call going the extra mile.
it reminds me of i spotted SBS8041E with WAB plate displayed few months back in BNL int. but it has been removed after a short while
And hope the TS will understand why WAB drivers are not allowed to do this.
yeap. everything has been said cleared.
its just the matter of you accepting the explaination or not. as for me, i understand why WAB drivers are not allowed to take PIWs..
Originally posted by BusSpeeder:is it even the ultimate deadline yet? i see in no way that it is reaching there yet, though they are slow in their works and could have started it earlier. you won't know if there's lack of contractors until they start to engage them before/after the WAB and PIW services have been implemented because they might all be taken up to do other projects.
If the day before the first WAB bus was rolled out on the roads, wasn't the final deadline, so when is the ultimate deadline then???
Wait till the public and the PIWs got so pissed off with all these consistent incidents and complaints and the news spread like wildfire onto the international websites and become another international joke from Singapore or wait till all the B9TLs, K230s and OC500s to reach their statutory lifespans???
There should be at least something planned ahead so that things can get done before the services can actually fully rendered. Rejecting passengers onboard a bus because the infrastruture wasn't ready is certainly a joke. It shows that they are not ready for the service due to their poor planning.
This is akin as saying for an example.
SBST brings in a fleet of 100 B9TLs, but they do not have the parts for the staircases to the upper saloon yet, due to contractor's fault or whatsoever. Thus they can only build up the bus completely without the staircases. But they are in dire need for these new buses, so they are put onto service. But the upper deck was blockade because of lack of the stairs to the upper saloon. Passengers cannot go up, they can only stay in the lower saloon of the bus. What do you think as a commuter's point of view???
Originally posted by Simple_boi:
And if compared to undeveloped countries, they are even way too far to match up with Singapore transport and people willl start migrating to Singapore? ? So what's the point of comparing with other countries? You guys just want to use a better ones to compare to Singapore.
The grass is usually greener on the other side, not in all cases.
Originally posted by BusSpeeder:suggest what can be done then. a decal with a "no wheelchair" sign to tell them that the particular service cannot allow PIWs to board the bus?
Originally posted by vicamour:
Wait till the public and the PIWs got so pissed off with all these consistent incidents and complaints and the news spread like wildfire onto the international websites and become another international joke from Singapore or wait till all the B9TLs, K230s and OC500s to reach their statutory lifespans???
Things will only get worse. Imagine the below, tourists will "Gong simi?" :
Additional notesThis is factually correct. 36 is NOT a WAB service. And it's 100% WAB fleet. The KUBs are in there for reasons we all know already.
Originally posted by Simple_boi:
And if compared to undeveloped countries, they are even way too far to match up with Singapore transport and people willl start migrating to Singapore? ? So what's the point of comparing with other countries? You guys just want to use a better ones to compare to Singapore.
No wor. Think of the transport system where we always laugh at its people having to crawl over the trains...Wheelchair accessible! (From Wikipedia)
today Sunday Times got article about the new Scania and MB buses. Also, got small section talking about WAB services... got mention that SMRT will only apply /get WAB status at later half of 2009..