Originally posted by jayh272416:i think theres only one solution
scrap the whole WAB idea until all buses are replaced.
might lead to potential flaming though....
Originally posted by SBS 8030 L:might lead to potential flaming though....
whats so flammable about that.
seeing those ppl try to get up a sv89 or sv45 KUB... seeing the day where all sv21 B9TLs went to party together... if they want to flame, go ahead. find a better solution first thx.
Originally posted by jayh272416:i think theres only one solution
scrap the whole WAB idea until all buses are replaced.
Lol... that will take like about 10 years? By then I dunno whether I have so called migrate to HK already or not...
Saw the entire thread on this topic. Just to share my view.
On summary, I think the government should be blamed mostly for this predicament. Poor planning and half hearted effort to work on the improvements. All these incompetencies from the government posed problems that trickled down to the commoners, which caused groups of them pointing fingers to each other.
Seriously I am rather surprised and disturbed that some of the people will think that it is the diabled people's fault for all these. Do you people have a sense of empathy for these group of people??? They are already unfortunate to be disabled and not as physically active as we normal people but yet they are strong willed and determined to live and work as normal people like us, by taking the effort to go out to work, play, etc, despite of their disabilities. Shouldn't we just be more flexible enough to allow these people to travel to other places at least, if they opt for public transport??? Rather than just stick your head in the mud and everything has to be going book by book, law by law... Yes, this is the stupid laws and rulings from our government, LTA. Remember the case of the young man saving a foreign lady in Singapore river??? It has become a international embarrassment. Gracious society, what is that from what I see here??? Discrimination, selfishness, inflexibility. It is rather sad that a so called successful country can have such emptiness in the society.
I wonder if these people are in the shoes of these people, what will they think??? You want to go the hospital for check ups and you had an appointment but the bus you are taking do not want to take you in, even if it has the WAB facilities, in the end, you are left out in the bus stop while other people who can move "normally" can board the bus. How do you yourself feel??? Discriminated??? Insulted???
On the contary, those who blamed the bus captains for refusing disabled passengers should think again before we point our fingers on these people. I believed most of them are passionate enough and would like to help these disabled people on board of these buses. But due to some inflexible rulings from LTA, (which is passed down to our bus operators), these bus captains have no choice but to reject these people and risk putting themselves in scoldings and complaints. Like it was said earlier, they are not allowed to do so. By doing so, they risk themselves in penalties and punishments, and the extend of breaking their ricebowls. Do you want to see this happen to our fellow citizens??? Look at what happen now, no one wants to drive the WAB buses. Who suffer??? The commuters.
And do you think that bus operators are so stupid enough to reject these people to board the bus for no reason and tarnish their company image and slap themselves in investing so much money in such kind of buses??? Again too much regulations from the LTA to cover up their incompetency to upgrade the facilities to be WAB friendly which should be done earlier.
So why put the blame on the bus companies, bus captains and even the disabled commuters, where the inefficiency and half hearted efforts of the government is at fault???
On the bus operators side, they already ready for taking in WAB buses in bulk. Since late 2006 till date, SBST has already brought in 1103 WAB buses while SMRTB has confirmed 133 WAB buses by this year. Our bus operators has brought in so much buses in a short span of 2 years (peak for SBS in the mid 90s was just 300 a year)and yet why is the LTA taking their own sweet time to upgrade the facilities of the bus stops and bus interchanges to be WAB friendly which could at most take 1 year???
There are about 5000 bus stops in Singapore and I think that more than half are already WAB friendly long ago. So what is it with the remaining bus stops and interchanges??? I am sure that upgrading to WAB friendly for a bus stop shouldn't take more than a week and those tricky ones like slopes would take a month at most. How many WAB unfriendly bus stop are there??? Let's put a figure 2000. if the upgrade process is carried out simultaneously around many parts in Singapore, at most it would take a year or so.
So what is LTA doing??? Taking their own sweet time??? Wasting money on those useless digital timing panels in city bus stops which proved unreliable and inaccurate most of the times, instead of investing the money to improve WAB facilities on bus stops/interchanges first??? Think about it, bus operators are already buying so much WAB buses in bulk, and now they are still waiting for LTA to allow WAB buses to fully perform their intended purposes. Isn't LTA being very inefficient here???
If LTA had planned earlier for public transport to cater disabled commuters, they should have done all these long time back, before allowing bus operators to bring in WAB buses in the first place. All these years, they just talk and talk only, but actually working on to bring in the facilities, what are they actually doing???
All these should be done many years ago already, when LTA was upgrading the bus stops island wide many years back. Not just upgrading the bus shelters, sheltered walkways but also should have planned to make these bus stops more WAB friendly in the first place. Howvever, no. I am quite surprised that some of the new bus stops still have steps on sloped bus stops. If the terrain does not allow the WAB friendly access to the bus stop, surely they can build a ramp (like those found with the staircases of housing estates) to allow PIWs to access the bus stops easily while bus stops still can be WAB friendly. Slopes and uneven terrains are just excuses for their half hearted commitment to improve the accessibility of the disabled people to bus stops.
And this should be nothing new and should be done at those years even we might not have WAB buses then, but we have low floor entry buses. We already have Dennis Tridents, Volvo B10TLs, Volvo B10BLE, Scania K94 before SBST was even formed and Volvo CNGs years before WAB buses came in. TIBS even have the ELBO stepless entry bus in the late 1990s. So it is nothing new that our operators were already bringing in low entry buses since the last decade to improve accessibility for commuters. And this had already an indication that taking in disabled passengers will be happening in future, so what has LTA been doing all these years??? Sleeping???
Never mind about PIWs. So shouldn't be these bus stops be more elderly and trolley friendly in that era where low floor buses were already brought in by our bus operators to improve accessibility of the older people or parents carrying prams for their babies to board and alight the buses??? Low entry buses and bus stops still with steps, something really wrong here. Another example is the rather new Woodlands Regional Interchange. New but not elderly and trolley friendly. Again, poor planning of infrastructure.
I saw the elderly have to step up and down the steps of the bus stops to board the stepless buses many years back. I wondered, what is the point of the stepless buses where the new bus stops are actually providing more inconvenience to these people??? Really ironic.
Come back to 2009, more ironic is that we already have WAB buses and yet we can't allow PIWs to board the bus, just because the bus stop does not have the facilities to cater wheelchairs, not because the bus cannot take in PIWs.
So what is the big hoo ha about being able to provide a decent transport service to the commuters where even half of the bus routes do not allow wheelchair bound commuters to board the ready fleet of WAB buses??? Our government just wants to be eager to show their "goodwill" first by telling stories about their "great achievements" which yet are just half achieved and eventually the commoners suffered for such predicaments.
if they are really sincere in bringing into such kind of improvements, they should have planned and build and get ready for most (99.9%) of the infrastructure ready before the first WAB bus was even rolled out. Compared to HK, our WAB bus service commitment is really years behind. We were at least 10 years behind them and till date, LTA still can reject PIW commuters just because they are slow in providing the right infrastructure.
After 12 plus years of saying providing World Class Transport system in the white paper, we are yet even world class, and even behind many first class transport systems and even some second class systems. If they cannot really cope with the demands, then don't anyhow increase the population unnecessarily.
What should have actually done that things will not be that bad???
1. Like what is said earlier, upgrade all facilities to be WAB friendly, bus stops, bus interchanges before introducing WAB buses.
2. Bus companies can still deploy WAB buses as normal and deploy buses which need to cater the demand. But since now the number of WAB buses are limited, the relevant bus company should provide the details on the timings of the WAB buses arriving the bus stop for a particular bus service. *Note there is no mandatory need to declare what WAB services on which services. Would be a better approach to introduce these buses to a wider audience.* However bus companies should also make some sense to introduce more WAB buses that has the potential for more PIWs.
However, bus companies must make sure that the timings they provide really have a WAB bus and not anyhow change the bus deployed unnecessarily.
Take an example, service 145. It has 2 WAB buses in its fleet. SBST should provide these information online or to the disabled commuters who had called up to enquire about the service informations.
How to reach out the the wheelchair commuters out there on these timing information???
- LTA should work with the relevant institutions, like hospitals, Association of the disabled, companies that hire disabled people, etc, to provide these information to these group of commuters. Firstly, they should educate to all the wheelchair bound passengers that not all buses are WAB friendly at the moment but they will be more readily available in the coming years. So they should understand why some bus services have to wait for a long time to get a WAB bus. They should educated them to look up or called up to the bus companies on the WAB status on certain routes, the number of buses, the timings, etc.
- PIWs should take the initiative to look up onto the bus operators website or call them up to ask if their daily bus service they take have a WAB bus. If yes, what time. If no, they should take the necessary alternative arrangements to go to their destinations. PIWs should also plan their own modes of going to their destination, if public transport are unable to fulfill their needs for the time being. What they need to understand is that bus companies needs time to renew such buses so not every bus they wish to take is to their advantages.
- Bus operators should also provide route informations on which bus services are WAB and the timings of such buses online. They should also include a PIW inquries in their hotline. Bus companies can also put these WAB information onto their paper route brouches. Bus companies can even further engage with these PIWs by SMSing or emailing them the WAB status changes on their regular bus services if PIWs are willingly to cooperate with the bus companies.
However I feel that point number 2 is more of an extra service if LTA bothers to upgrade all the facilities in the first place and allow PIWs to board any WAB buses anytime, anywhere on any service that has WAB buses.
On the last note: (Off topic)
I feel that our WAB buses are poorly designed. No doubt it has 2 PIW areas, I feel that installing foldable seats there should also be a norm for our buses. I would prefer the European style approach. We hardly have PIWs passengers for most of the times. Thus these foldable seats can work as a better use for the elderly for more seats. Think of this, do you see more elderly taking the bus or more PIWs???
There is still this flaw in our new low floor WAB buses. I really pity those elderly who have to stand all the way on a bus journey. Imagine the bus has more than 4 elderly people, 2 pregnant women, a guy with with a bandged leg, imagine the agony of not having a seat. We might have stepless buses for these group of people, but by not having enough seats to these people, does it defeat the purpose in the other view??? Even if all 6 seats in front are taken up by this group of people, how about those who board the bus later??? Would it be more appropriate to allow more seats for them as much as possible, rather than let them stand all the way and squeeze like a sardine???
I understand there are technical limitations, like the front 2 wheel hubs and stepped aisle at the back. So 4 potential seats are sacrificed at the front wheel hubs, unless bus operators want to install seats that high, like those old Nissan Diesels in the early 1990s.
Even if there are PIWs on board, we can fold up the seats and let them use the space. The priority for that space is still PIWs. I'm not saying that PIWs are a hassel but we should be flexible to the different groups of commuters that needs help. Be flexible. This is what LTA is not really into.
2 areas for you to ponder:
1. Are there more PIW passengers or more elderly passengers when you are taking your daily bus route??? Is providing a seat to our elderly so difficult by just adding a foldable seat when there are no PIWs on board??? We care about wheelchair bound people, but do we think of our elderly people as well, since the population is aging in future???
2. When you are old in future, would you choose to sit in a wheelchair or you want to be healthy and be able to walk around??? If it is the latter, shouldn't there be more older people taking the bus, be it now or in future???
Originally posted by vicamour:Saw the entire thread on this topic. Just to share my view.
On summary, I think the government should be blamed mostly for this predicament. Poor planning and half hearted effort to work on the improvements. All these incompetencies from the government posed problems that trickled down to the commoners, which caused groups of them pointing fingers to each other.
Seriously I am rather surprised and disturbed that some of the people will think that it is the diabled people's fault for all these. Do you people have a sense of empathy for these group of people??? They are already unfortunate to be disabled and not as physically active as we normal people but yet they are strong willed and determined to live and work as normal people like us, by taking the effort to go out to work, play, etc, despite of their disabilities. Shouldn't we just be more flexible enough to allow these people to travel to other places at least, if they opt for public transport??? Rather than just stick your head in the mud and everything has to be going book by book, law by law... Yes, this is the stupid laws and rulings from our government, LTA. Remember the case of the young man saving a foreign lady in Singapore river??? It has become a international embarrassment. Gracious society, what is that from what I see here??? Discrimination, selfishness, inflexibility. It is rather sad that a so called successful country can have such emptiness in the society.
I wonder if these people are in the shoes of these people, what will they think??? You want to go the hospital for check ups and you had an appointment but the bus you are taking do not want to take you in, even if it has the WAB facilities, in the end, you are left out in the bus stop while other people who can move "normally" can board the bus. How do you yourself feel??? Discriminated??? Insulted???
On the contary, those who blamed the bus captains for refusing disabled passengers should think again before we point our fingers on these people. I believed most of them are passionate enough and would like to help these disabled people on board of these buses. But due to some inflexible rulings from LTA, (which is passed down to our bus operators), these bus captains have no choice but to reject these people and risk putting themselves in scoldings and complaints. Like it was said earlier, they are not allowed to do so. By doing so, they risk themselves in penalties and punishments, and the extend of breaking their ricebowls. Do you want to see this happen to our fellow citizens??? Look at what happen now, no one wants to drive the WAB buses. Who suffer??? The commuters.
And do you think that bus operators are so stupid enough to reject these people to board the bus for no reason and tarnish their company image and slap themselves in investing so much money in such kind of buses??? Again too much regulations from the LTA to cover up their incompetency to upgrade the facilities to be WAB friendly which should be done earlier.
So why put the blame on the bus companies, bus captains and even the disabled commuters, where the inefficiency and half hearted efforts of the government is at fault???
On the bus operators side, they already ready for taking in WAB buses in bulk. Since late 2006 till date, SBST has already brought in 1103 WAB buses while SMRTB has confirmed 133 WAB buses by this year. Our bus operators has brought in so much buses in a short span of 2 years (peak for SBS in the mid 90s was just 300 a year)and yet why is the LTA taking their own sweet time to upgrade the facilities of the bus stops and bus interchanges to be WAB friendly which could at most take 1 year???
There are about 5000 bus stops in Singapore and I think that more than half are already WAB friendly long ago. So what is it with the remaining bus stops and interchanges??? I am sure that upgrading to WAB friendly for a bus stop shouldn't take more than a week and those tricky ones like slopes would take a month at most. How many WAB unfriendly bus stop are there??? Let's put a figure 2000. if the upgrade process is carried out simultaneously around many parts in Singapore, at most it would take a year or so.
So what is LTA doing??? Taking their own sweet time??? Wasting money on those useless digital timing panels in city bus stops which proved unreliable and inaccurate most of the times, instead of investing the money to improve WAB facilities on bus stops/interchanges first??? Think about it, bus operators are already buying so much WAB buses in bulk, and now they are still waiting for LTA to allow WAB buses to fully perform their intended purposes. Isn't LTA being very inefficient here???
If LTA had planned earlier for public transport to cater disabled commuters, they should have done all these long time back, before allowing bus operators to bring in WAB buses in the first place. All these years, they just talk and talk only, but actually working on to bring in the facilities, what are they actually doing???
All these should be done many years ago already, when LTA was upgrading the bus stops island wide many years back. Not just upgrading the bus shelters, sheltered walkways but also should have planned to make these bus stops more WAB friendly in the first place. Howvever, no. I am quite surprised that some of the new bus stops still have steps on sloped bus stops. If the terrain does not allow the WAB friendly access to the bus stop, surely they can build a ramp (like those found with the staircases of housing estates) to allow PIWs to access the bus stops easily while bus stops still can be WAB friendly. Slopes and uneven terrains are just excuses for their half hearted commitment to improve the accessibility of the disabled people to bus stops.
And this should be nothing new and should be done at those years even we might not have WAB buses then, but we have low floor entry buses. We already have Dennis Tridents, Volvo B10TLs, Volvo B10BLE, Scania K94 before SBST was even formed and Volvo CNGs years before WAB buses came in. TIBS even have the ELBO stepless entry bus in the late 1990s. So it is nothing new that our operators were already bringing in low entry buses since the last decade to improve accessibility for commuters. And this had already an indication that taking in disabled passengers will be happening in future, so what has LTA been doing all these years??? Sleeping???
Never mind about PIWs. So shouldn't be these bus stops be more elderly and trolley friendly in that era where low floor buses were already brought in by our bus operators to improve accessibility of the older people or parents carrying prams for their babies to board and alight the buses??? Low entry buses and bus stops still with steps, something really wrong here. Another example is the rather new Woodlands Regional Interchange. New but not elderly and trolley friendly. Again, poor planning of infrastructure.
I saw the elderly have to step up and down the steps of the bus stops to board the stepless buses many years back. I wondered, what is the point of the stepless buses where the new bus stops are actually providing more inconvenience to these people??? Really ironic.
Come back to 2009, more ironic is that we already have WAB buses and yet we can't allow PIWs to board the bus, just because the bus stop does not have the facilities to cater wheelchairs, not because the bus cannot take in PIWs.
So what is the big hoo ha about being able to provide a decent transport service to the commuters where even half of the bus routes do not allow wheelchair bound commuters to board the ready fleet of WAB buses??? Our government just wants to be eager to show their "goodwill" first by telling stories about their "great achievements" which yet are just half achieved and eventually the commoners suffered for such predicaments.
if they are really sincere in bringing into such kind of improvements, they should have planned and build and get ready for most (99.9%) of the infrastructure ready before the first WAB bus was even rolled out. Compared to HK, our WAB bus service commitment is really years behind. We were at least 10 years behind them and till date, LTA still can reject PIW commuters just because they are slow in providing the right infrastructure.
After 12 plus years of saying providing World Class Transport system in the white paper, we are yet even world class, and even behind many first class transport systems and even some second class systems. If they cannot really cope with the demands, then don't anyhow increase the population unnecessarily.
Haiz... How I wish the garment authorities and the bus companies share the similiar thoughts like you and me... That's why I dunno whether will I have migrated to HK by then (10 years down the road)..
Originally posted by vicamour:Saw the entire thread on this topic. Just to share my view.
On summary, I think the government should be blamed mostly for this predicament. Poor planning and half hearted effort to work on the improvements. All these incompetencies from the government posed problems that trickled down to the commoners, which caused groups of them pointing fingers to each other.
Seriously I am rather surprised and disturbed that some of the people will think that it is the diabled people's fault for all these. Do you people have a sense of empathy for these group of people??? They are already unfortunate to be disabled and not as physically active as we normal people but yet they are strong willed and determined to live and work as normal people like us, by taking the effort to go out to work, play, etc, despite of their disabilities. Shouldn't we just be more flexible enough to allow these people to travel to other places at least, if they opt for public transport??? Rather than just stick your head in the mud and everything has to be going book by book, law by law... Yes, this is the stupid laws and rulings from our government, LTA. Remember the case of the young man saving a foreign lady in Singapore river??? It has become a international embarrassment. Gracious society, what is that from what I see here??? Discrimination, selfishness, inflexibility. It is rather sad that a so called successful country can have such emptiness in the society.
I wonder if these people are in the shoes of these people, what will they think??? You want to go the hospital for check ups and you had an appointment but the bus you are taking do not want to take you in, even if it has the WAB facilities, in the end, you are left out in the bus stop while other people who can move "normally" can board the bus. How do you yourself feel??? Discriminated??? Insulted???
On the contary, those who blamed the bus captains for refusing disabled passengers should think again before we point our fingers on these people. I believed most of them are passionate enough and would like to help these disabled people on board of these buses. But due to some inflexible rulings from LTA, (which is passed down to our bus operators), these bus captains have no choice but to reject these people and risk putting themselves in scoldings and complaints. Like it was said earlier, they are not allowed to do so. By doing so, they risk themselves in penalties and punishments, and the extend of breaking their ricebowls. Do you want to see this happen to our fellow citizens??? Look at what happen now, no one wants to drive the WAB buses. Who suffer??? The commuters.
And do you think that bus operators are so stupid enough to reject these people to board the bus for no reason and tarnish their company image and slap themselves in investing so much money in such kind of buses??? Again too much regulations from the LTA to cover up their incompetency to upgrade the facilities to be WAB friendly which should be done earlier.
So why put the blame on the bus companies, bus captains and even the disabled commuters, where the inefficiency and half hearted efforts of the government is at fault???
On the bus operators side, they already ready for taking in WAB buses in bulk. Since late 2006 till date, SBST has already brought in 1103 WAB buses while SMRTB has confirmed 133 WAB buses by this year. Our bus operators has brought in so much buses in a short span of 2 years (peak for SBS in the mid 90s was just 300 a year)and yet why is the LTA taking their own sweet time to upgrade the facilities of the bus stops and bus interchanges to be WAB friendly which could at most take 1 year???
There are about 5000 bus stops in Singapore and I think that more than half are already WAB friendly long ago. So what is it with the remaining bus stops and interchanges??? I am sure that upgrading to WAB friendly for a bus stop shouldn't take more than a week and those tricky ones like slopes would take a month at most. How many WAB unfriendly bus stop are there??? Let's put a figure 2000. if the upgrade process is carried out simultaneously around many parts in Singapore, at most it would take a year or so.
So what is LTA doing??? Taking their own sweet time??? Wasting money on those useless digital timing panels in city bus stops which proved unreliable and inaccurate most of the times, instead of investing the money to improve WAB facilities on bus stops/interchanges first??? Think about it, bus operators are already buying so much WAB buses in bulk, and now they are still waiting for LTA to allow WAB buses to fully perform their intended purposes. Isn't LTA being very inefficient here???
If LTA had planned earlier for public transport to cater disabled commuters, they should have done all these long time back, before allowing bus operators to bring in WAB buses in the first place. All these years, they just talk and talk only, but actually working on to bring in the facilities, what are they actually doing???
All these should be done many years ago already, when LTA was upgrading the bus stops island wide many years back. Not just upgrading the bus shelters, sheltered walkways but also should have planned to make these bus stops more WAB friendly in the first place. Howvever, no. I am quite surprised that some of the new bus stops still have steps on sloped bus stops. If the terrain does not allow the WAB friendly access to the bus stop, surely they can build a ramp (like those found with the staircases of housing estates) to allow PIWs to access the bus stops easily while bus stops still can be WAB friendly. Slopes and uneven terrains are just excuses for their half hearted commitment to improve the accessibility of the disabled people to bus stops.
And this should be nothing new and should be done at those years even we might not have WAB buses then, but we have low floor entry buses. We already have Dennis Tridents, Volvo B10TLs, Volvo B10BLE, Scania K94 before SBST was even formed and Volvo CNGs years before WAB buses came in. TIBS even have the ELBO stepless entry bus in the late 1990s. So it is nothing new that our operators were already bringing in low entry buses since the last decade to improve accessibility for commuters. And this had already an indication that taking in disabled passengers will be happening in future, so what has LTA been doing all these years??? Sleeping???
Never mind about PIWs. So shouldn't be these bus stops be more elderly and trolley friendly in that era where low floor buses were already brought in by our bus operators to improve accessibility of the older people or parents carrying prams for their babies to board and alight the buses??? Low entry buses and bus stops still with steps, something really wrong here. Another example is the rather new Woodlands Regional Interchange. New but not elderly and trolley friendly. Again, poor planning of infrastructure.
I saw the elderly have to step up and down the steps of the bus stops to board the stepless buses many years back. I wondered, what is the point of the stepless buses where the new bus stops are actually providing more inconvenience to these people??? Really ironic.
Come back to 2009, more ironic is that we already have WAB buses and yet we can't allow PIWs to board the bus, just because the bus stop does not have the facilities to cater wheelchairs, not because the bus cannot take in PIWs.
So what is the big hoo ha about being able to provide a decent transport service to the commuters where even half of the bus routes do not allow wheelchair bound commuters to board the ready fleet of WAB buses??? Our government just wants to be eager to show their "goodwill" first by telling stories about their "great achievements" which yet are just half achieved and eventually the commoners suffered for such predicaments.
if they are really sincere in bringing into such kind of improvements, they should have planned and build and get ready for most (99.9%) of the infrastructure ready before the first WAB bus was even rolled out. Compared to HK, our WAB bus service commitment is really years behind. We were at least 10 years behind them and till date, LTA still can reject PIW commuters just because they are slow in providing the right infrastructure.
After 12 plus years of saying providing World Class Transport system in the white paper, we are yet even world class, and even behind many first class transport systems and even some second class systems. If they cannot really cope with the demands, then don't anyhow increase the population unnecessarily.
100% agree.
My two cents.
sorry if i offend anyone,but:
HAve u guys ever thought about the place the PIWs stand in?Like,who wants to be PIW in first place.I can't believe the...sigh.just reflect on yourselves.Change your angle,put yrself in PIW shoes.
Originally posted by ama-teur:My two cents.
sorry if i offend anyone,but:
HAve u guys ever thought about the place the PIWs stand in?Like,who wants to be PIW in first place.I can't believe the...sigh.just reflect on yourselves.Change your angle,put yrself in PIW shoes.
If I am 1 of the PIW, I will be even more disappointed in Singapore...
Originally posted by ^tamago^:We should just scrap this whole WAB idea and return the wheelchair bays’ space to seats for commuters. It just leads to so much trouble for PTOs.
Yea... Everything that SBS Transit (and maybe SMRT Buses also) does like all the intro of WABs are mainly for wayang purposes...
There is no right or wrong in this entire fiasco... I mean, if drivers are given orders to not stop for PIWs, they can't be wrong right?
If only everyone gives and takes a bit, a lot of this kinda complains won't happen...
I don't think there is anything wrong with the introduction of WAB buses, but the system in which it is implemented, perhaps the thought of its for your own good which screwed up some elements of it.
Why did Europe succeed in it, 10 plus years back? Why did HK succeed in it, just about 10 years back? Why did we have to delay, questions to answer as well from tpt companies...
The rules and laws accompanying the transition period may be too profound to understand for some. We may understand, but our parents, people who are not in the hobby may not. We may have to consider the public in, and this we applies to tpt companies as well.
Originally posted by TIB1062Y:Yea... Everything that SBS Transit (and maybe SMRT Buses also) does like all the intro of WABs are mainly for wayang purposes...
You have to ask LTA. The very same people who don't take public transport yet decide to implement things like central planning and approved "Joon Koon" signboards also came up with all this very idea.
Sometimes its confusing to the public regarding who is doing the planning of all these. Passengers often complain or just comment to the bus captains about the lesser seats on the new buses, and the bus captains too could not answer directly that its LTA which requires this, but say simply to his/her knowledge that its a new bus from the company. Luckily he/she did not add in that all buses coming in the future might be similar to this; few seats and more standing!
When I hear these comments, I wonder how many years we need to hit the goal as illustrated in the LTA Gallery. We have somehow improved safety, but passengers' quality/comfort of travel is perhaps the least improved element. Not only me, thousands of passengers complain and comment about lesser seats, frequent breakdowns, weak and almost non-exisiting air-conditioning. Some are hard to achieve, some are necessary to follow rules and laws, but the minimum of public transport, not asking much, have been reached, or still far away? This, I expect, will draw different viewpoints and opinions.
Originally posted by TIB1224Y:Sometimes its confusing to the public regarding who is doing the planning of all these. Passengers often complain or just comment to the bus captains about the lesser seats on the new buses, and the bus captains too could not answer directly that its LTA which requires this, but say simply to his/her knowledge that its a new bus from the company. Luckily he/she did not add in that all buses coming in the future might be similar to this; few seats and more standing!
When I hear these comments, I wonder how many years we need to hit the goal as illustrated in the LTA Gallery. We have somehow improved safety, but passengers' quality/comfort of travel is perhaps the least improved element. Not only me, thousands of passengers complain and comment about lesser seats, frequent breakdowns, weak and almost non-exisiting air-conditioning. Some are hard to achieve, some are necessary to follow rules and laws, but the minimum of public transport, not asking much, have been reached, or still far away? This, I expect, will draw different viewpoints and opinions.
"but the minimum of public transport, not asking much, have been reached, or still far away"
I still think it's still far away... WAB is 1 issue, being able to fulfil the maximum standee in the bus of 95% is also another issue..
And if compared HK with SG, SG is still way too far far away from HK in terms of the service standards, qualities, in almost every area...
Originally posted by ^tamago^:We should just scrap this whole WAB idea and return the wheelchair bays’ space to seats for commuters. It just leads to so much trouble for PTOs.
I don't agree. WAB idea should still be introduced if we want these people to take public transport as well.
Note that I am not faulting the bus operators for this incidents, but rather the authorities.
The bus companies are 100% right to introduce so many WAB buses in these 2 years. They are also right to follow the guidelines set up by LTA (which is somehow unreasonable ones) and I have understood the awakward situation they are in (have WAB buses yet cannot take in PIWs). No doubt we might be late in this as compared to many countries, but it is the inproper planning by LTA that has caused so much problems to our bus companies, bus captains, PIWs and the general public. After so many years of research, yet they do not have proper planning and building of the required facilities before the first WAb bus is out.
This is not a chicken and egg situation, as compared to why bus operators do not want to rollout more CNG buses. Providing bus service to PIWs is a confirmed future plan for our bus service here and yet I don't understand why LTA is stll approaching a "wait and see then do' approach for this kind of services.
Another major thing I am unhappy with LTA is that they rejected SBS idea of introducing the guided bus system in the mid 1990s. Now they are shooting themselves in the foot by introducing more full day bus lanes, which I think is less effective. A guided bus syetem at least 100% deters heavy traffic from other road users, not bus lanes. This would ensure a higher percentage of faster and punctual bus trips. And other road users also pay taxes, ERPs to use the road and thus unfair to these people by taking a lane away from them.
Territory rules are complete nonsense too, as I see virtually non existant competition for the past 2 decades, service improvements are little. Lastly, the crappier thing is that cabs and public buses have to pay ERP. I'm sure most of you people will agree that this is rubbish.
To sum up all these, LTA is completely screwed up. Our transport system is really a failure.
Originally posted by TIB1062Y:"but the minimum of public transport, not asking much, have been reached, or still far away"
I still think it's still far away... WAB is 1 issue, being able to fulfil the maximum standee in the bus of 95% is also another issue..
And if compared HK with SG, SG is still way too far far away from HK in terms of the service standards, qualities, in almost every area...
Well, at least our public buses still runs as scheduled. Some countries i know of do not even have an adequate public transportation system.
So if we scrap the whole WAB idea now, what will be the implications, tamago? There are also advantages of having a WAB bus now, right? easy accessibility for other passengers, being WAB ready, environmentally friendly buses among others.
If we buy the high floor buses/low floor non-WAB buses back again, i can assure that there'll be more arguments/debates on why govt/SBS/SMRT/LTA dont want to implement WAB features like other countries do now (HK for example).
Originally posted by vicamour:
I don't agree. WAB idea should still be introduced if we want these people to take public transport as well.Note that I am not faulting the bus operators for this incidents, but rather the authorities.
The bus companies are 100% right to introduce so many WAB buses in these 2 years. They are also right to follow the guidelines set up by LTA (which is somehow unreasonable ones) and I have understood the awakward situation they are in (have WAB buses yet cannot take in PIWs). No doubt we might be late in this as compared to many countries, but it is the inproper planning by LTA that has caused so much problems to our bus companies, bus captains, PIWs and the general public. After so many years of research, yet they do not have proper planning and building of the required facilities before the first WAb bus is out.
This is not a chicken and egg situation, as compared to why bus operators do not want to rollout more CNG buses. Providing bus service to PIWs is a confirmed future plan for our bus service here and yet I don't understand why LTA is stll approaching a "wait and see then do' approach for this kind of services.
Another major thing I am unhappy with LTA is that they rejected SBS idea of introducing the guided bus system in the mid 1990s. Now they are shooting themselves in the foot by introducing more full day bus lanes, which I think is less effective. A guided bus syetem at least 100% deters heavy traffic from other road users, not bus lanes. This would ensure a higher percentage of faster and punctual bus trips. And other road users also pay taxes, ERPs to use the road and thus unfair to these people by taking a lane away from them.
Territory rules are complete nonsense too, as I see virtually non existant competition for the past 2 decades, service improvements are little. Lastly, the crappier thing is that cabs and public buses have to pay ERP. I'm sure most of you people will agree that this is rubbish.
To sum up all these, LTA is completely screwed up. Our transport system is really a failure.
"To sum up all these, LTA is completely screwed up. Our transport system is really a failure."
100% Totally agree!
Originally posted by TIB1062Y:"To sum up all these, LTA is completely screwed up. Our transport system is really a failure."
100% Totally agree!
here i go again.
you're capable right? write in to LTA, be the boss now.
Originally posted by TIB1062Y:"but the minimum of public transport, not asking much, have been reached, or still far away"
I still think it's still far away... WAB is 1 issue, being able to fulfil the maximum standee in the bus of 95% is also another issue..
And if compared HK with SG, SG is still way too far far away from HK in terms of the service standards, qualities, in almost every area...
For now...the 10min max freq, no news.
I rather they improve frequencies on services and bus stop PIW friendly first, then touch on WAB. If the bus stop is on a slope and not enough space to build a ramp directly, why not, a little bit further down the bus stop then take the PIW. If everything has to be so law by law, then ambulance, fire engine and police cars should follow speed limit and find a parking lot before performing duty, people die = their problem. Government vehicles can be flexible, why can't the citizens? It's also the same case for this, WAB buses with correct facilities go by law, PIW wanna board cannot (PIW cannot go out = their problem)
Of course, longer frequency = more pax boarding, if like that, those svcs with DD, I rather they take off DD and double the amount of buses (ie 1 DD = 2 SD) to boost the frequency
Originally posted by vicamour:
I don't agree. WAB idea should still be introduced if we want these people to take public transport as well.Note that I am not faulting the bus operators for this incidents, but rather the authorities.
The bus companies are 100% right to introduce so many WAB buses in these 2 years. They are also right to follow the guidelines set up by LTA (which is somehow unreasonable ones) and I have understood the awakward situation they are in (have WAB buses yet cannot take in PIWs). No doubt we might be late in this as compared to many countries, but it is the inproper planning by LTA that has caused so much problems to our bus companies, bus captains, PIWs and the general public. After so many years of research, yet they do not have proper planning and building of the required facilities before the first WAb bus is out.
This is not a chicken and egg situation, as compared to why bus operators do not want to rollout more CNG buses. Providing bus service to PIWs is a confirmed future plan for our bus service here and yet I don't understand why LTA is stll approaching a "wait and see then do' approach for this kind of services.
Another major thing I am unhappy with LTA is that they rejected SBS idea of introducing the guided bus system in the mid 1990s. Now they are shooting themselves in the foot by introducing more full day bus lanes, which I think is less effective. A guided bus syetem at least 100% deters heavy traffic from other road users, not bus lanes. This would ensure a higher percentage of faster and punctual bus trips. And other road users also pay taxes, ERPs to use the road and thus unfair to these people by taking a lane away from them.
Territory rules are complete nonsense too, as I see virtually non existant competition for the past 2 decades, service improvements are little. Lastly, the crappier thing is that cabs and public buses have to pay ERP. I'm sure most of you people will agree that this is rubbish.
To sum up all these, LTA is completely screwed up. Our transport system is really a failure.
I'm sorry to say this but this is really 100% true.
Everybody, just before this thread turns into an argument, that there are several views. There isnt really a right or wrong answer to this either. So, let's keep our cool now :)
We all have our own viewpoints. I do too. besides, if LTA is total failure, i guess Singapore wouldn't even have a proper transport system (bus trains and taxis with proper roads).
Originally posted by TIB537B:Everybody, just before this thread turns into an argument, that there are several views. There isnt really a right or wrong answer to this either. So, let's keep our cool now :)
We all have our own viewpoints. I do too. besides, if LTA is total failure, i guess Singapore wouldn't even have a proper transport system (bus trains and taxis with proper roads).
Originally posted by ngjy22:For now...the 10min max freq, no news.
I rather they improve frequencies on services and bus stop PIW friendly first, then touch on WAB. If the bus stop is on a slope and not enough space to build a ramp directly, why not, a little bit further down the bus stop then take the PIW. If everything has to be so law by law, then ambulance, fire engine and police cars should follow speed limit and find a parking lot before performing duty, people die = their problem. Government vehicles can be flexible, why can't the citizens? It's also the same case for this, WAB buses with correct facilities go by law, PIW wanna board cannot (PIW cannot go out = their problem)
Of course, longer frequency = more pax boarding, if like that, those svcs with DD, I rather they take off DD and double the amount of buses (ie 1 DD = 2 SD) to boost the frequency
I also got think of the 10min max freq... Actually by right now that they have more buses than before, they should have already improved their frequency especially for high demand services.. And "1 DD = 2 SD" would means that they need to find even more drivers...
Originally posted by TIB537B:
here i go again.you're capable right? write in to LTA, be the boss now.
At least our minds and thoughts are not as rigid as the garment...