ex-believer

• koet

  5 Jun 10, 05:35

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  My suggestion is do some indepth study on what Buddhism and Buddhist practice is about, then decide for yourself what you want when you have a clearer picture.

  Here's something my moderator Longchen wrote which I feel needs to be emphasized about the difference between folk ritual/superstition, and true Buddhism.

  Hi Vexteen,

  Just a sharing.

  The main difference (to me) about superstition and the real practice is that the emphasis is entirely different.

  Folk ritual is mainly about seeking protection from Gods and Boddhisatvas. In fact, to most people, this is their main concern. They are not interested in helping themselves.

  For the real spiritual practice, it is about helping ourself, not seeking protection from deities. In fact, one's life may be even worst (on the conventional sense) when one is on the real path... that has been my own experience... at least. This is neccessary to break through the way we percieve life.

  Hope this sums up things. :)

  .........

  hi geis,

  thanks for your candour... anyway, in my own journey too, i go thru countless ups and downs and it will continue... i think it is happening for all of us... it is always harder to improve than to backslide.  The teacher can hammer us into shape, but he/she is not around always... we have to have a very very strong mind.  There is so much suffering always, in all aspects of life, for oneself and for others, such incredible suffering. Sometimes, one wonders why samsara is so exceedingly painful.  everyone is going thru their share of suffering... if we really see the pain, we can develop renunciation, it becomes a source of strength to further pick ourselves up again and again, over and over and then to walk on.  Actually, there is no other choice, one has to complete the journey by oneself, opting out is not an option. Seeing this deeply for oneself, it is a endless cause for compassion for others too...  the more one sees it for oneself, the more sadness one has for others too.

   

  To me, the more i walk the path, the clearer i see that there is no way to prevent difficulties in life. There will come a point when you just let go...

  Rather than fight with reality, see through its illusionary nature... There is no self there in all the happenings... Self is the reaction to the happening... that is manifesting spontaneously. Even the anger, emotions, etc have no self-agent...

  From my experience, it is very hard to see the illusionary nature in the midst of pain. The pain is too real to be illusionary...

   

  p.s. you can check out http://www.jenchen.org.sg/ to find out more about what Buddhist practice is about. The articles are easy to understand. My Master (Ven Shen Kai) was once a Christian pastor, but he converted to a Buddhist monk after doing indepth study of Buddhism which totally changed his perspective and understanding about what Buddhism is about.

  i agree with you that "one's life may be worse when one is on the real path".  my troubles come when i decide to go on the path.  a spiritual teacher said that these troubles surface because one is on the path.  it's a battle between spirit (heart) and mind.  the mind will always tell you to give up and that it is useless to walk this path.  maybe i am at this stage.  too much resistance.

  when you face too much resistance, do you quit the path temporarily and rejoin when conditions are more conducive or persist and face the worst outcome possible ? 

  my experience on this path has been meandering.  sometimes a detour takes me to places where i have insights.  and i come back with a fresh perspective.  other times, it was running away like quitting strenuous weight training.

• koet

  5 Jun 10, 05:40

  Originally posted by Yunhaier:

   

   Life is truly perplexing; but among many of these deep questions, the point of existence often worries men the most. In our respective ways, we always try to make sense of the world we live in. Hence we will attempt to provide meaning to our experience, being part of our process to decipher the code of life, through the paradigm we chose to view from.  

  Since you have posted in AA, I would take it that you probably want a secular response since it’s mundane to talk about any particular faith here in AA. Hence, allow me to share about the philosophical aspect of your question.

  Because looking through the religion’s paradigm is one of the perspectives we could employ to make meaning to our experience and reveal (in some sense) the point of our individual existence - surely, one’s understanding of what’s life and the point of existence will definitely differ from others. But why should it stop us from trying to find the answers we need to appease our insatiable spiritual hunger?

  All religion claims that they hold the ultimate truth, but in reality, like what Protagoras said: man is the measure of all things.

  Therefore, depending on the nature of your spiritual dissatisfaction, you might not actually need to do a ‘either or’ selection; like between religion X or religion Y.

  Understand the nature of your dissonance and what exactly you are disturbed about your present belief would help you to decide what you really want.

  Because at the end of the day, we want to choose a religion that is relevant to our life - since the definition of relevance is relative to us.

  Aside to TS: if you need to clarify religious beliefs, values, thoughts, question, perspective, etc, please do so in the respective forum/s - AA is secular.

  Cheers

  thanks for your comment.  i did intend to post in AA due to its secular nature.  i didn't know if i shld post in buddhism or christianity forum because currently i am speaking more as a free thinker.

• koet

  5 Jun 10, 05:47

  Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:

  Instead of immediately thinking of a religion as the answer to your current state of mind, why not spend some quiet time on your own, with no one else to influence your thoughts. Go somewhere peaceful and quiet, where you can be relaxed. Personally, I would recommend meditation to help relax your mind, to think better. (Meditation is not exclusive to any religion, regardless of what anyone says. It can be used purely as a non-religious relaxation technique.) Think about what sort of life you want to lead, and what will make you truly happiest and most fulfilled in life? Think long-term, not short-term.

  Since you didn't mention what your current "life issue" is, I presume you're thinking more deeply into your own life. If you're currently perplexed because you just broke up with bf/gf, quarrelled with parents/friends/colleagues, pet died, or you currently can't afford to buy some fancy gadget or car, then you'll really need to reflect even deeper into what you want in life to feel fulfilled, as these are just temporary events. :)

  Once you've sorted out your thoughts, then consider how you can make what you want happen, on your own, with your own abilities and strengths. Identify and eliminate your weaknesses, so that you have even more strength within you. You can do it, if you believe in yourself, then you'll be more confident to face your future. :) Too many people look to a religion for the wrong reasons.

  Rainbow Jigsaw of Life

  mine is more on the deeper life issue.

  yes, i agree with you having quiet time will help.

• koet

  5 Jun 10, 05:53

  Originally posted by TYING:

  Is it you ling shi bao fuo jiao thats why buddha no save you?

  Anyway, if you face difficulties in life, praying only provides momentarily comfort. It is your own effort and actions that will ultimately pull you through. Do not entirely shift the blame onto these spiritual assistance. What about your family members and friends? These people are not god, but they can provide equally good encouragement too. =) 

  family members are the ones whom i shld avoid... haha 

  won't elaborate but some times the people who pull you apart are those you thought you can count on

• koet

  5 Jun 10, 06:00

  Originally posted by ~PEPPER~:

  If threadstarter wants to know more abt christianality he/she can go to a church to learn more abt it.

  i attended church some years back. 

  i respect buddhism and christianity.  both have helped and taught me.  there are some aspects in both religions which i still can't understand or accept.  i attribute it to my own poor spiritual cultivation.  i have much more to learn. 

  nevertheless i don't see religion as the end.  living a life true to yourself is the end, in my opinion

• -StarDust-

  5 Jun 10, 10:27

  Good luck on ur religious path. Hope u find a religion nextime that's suitable for u.

• ~PEPPER~

  5 Jun 10, 10:39

  Originally posted by koet:

  mine is more on the deeper life issue.

  yes, i agree with you having quiet time will help.

  
  Then have some quiet time. Religion no need to rush.

  I chose christianality after some time I left buddhism.

  For me. chosing christianality takes time too. Not I auto chose christianality after I gave up on buddhism. I accepted Jesus christ after going to church a few times.

  I also need some quiet time after I left buddhism to think about things what spiritual path to adopt etc.

  No offense to buddhism. Only sharing what happened to me.

   I am not asking threadstarter to chose christianality, only sharing  my experience.

• koet

  6 Jun 10, 20:55

  Originally posted by ~PEPPER~:

  
  Then have some quiet time. Religion no need to rush.

  I chose christianality after some time I left buddhism.

  For me. chosing christianality takes time too. Not I auto chose christianality after I gave up on buddhism. I accepted Jesus christ after going to church a few times.

  I also need some quiet time after I left buddhism to think about things what spiritual path to adopt etc.

  No offense to buddhism. Only sharing what happened to me.

   I am not asking threadstarter to chose christianality, only sharing  my experience.

  thanks and also to all forumners who shared your experiences.

  i do need quiet time and will think it through.  :)

• ~PEPPER~

  7 Jun 10, 10:14

  Originally posted by koet:

  thanks and also to all forumners who shared your experiences.

  i do need quiet time and will think it through.  :)

  
  Take ur time dun rush. Spend some time alone quietly to think abt it.

• Herzog_Zwei

  7 Jun 10, 10:32

  Originally posted by koet:

  thanks for your comment.  i did intend to post in AA due to its secular nature.  i didn't know if i shld post in buddhism or christianity forum because currently i am speaking more as a free thinker.

  
  We do have the Atheist/irreligionist corner.

• ~PEPPER~

  7 Jun 10, 10:35

  Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

  
  We do have the Atheist/irreligionist corner.

  
  Herzog_zwei wads ur religious beliefs? Irreligious atheists?

  I gt a frenz all religion also dun believe one. Also dun believe in God.

• -StarDust-

  7 Jun 10, 11:06

  Take ur time dun rush.

• Herzog_Zwei

  7 Jun 10, 11:12

  Originally posted by ~PEPPER~:

  
  Herzog_zwei wads ur religious beliefs? Irreligious atheists?

  I gt a frenz all religion also dun believe one. Also dun believe in God.

  
  Atheist=doesn't believe in God

  Irreligionist=doesn't believe in any religion

• dangerboi

  7 Jun 10, 12:07

  grow up...every human experiences ups and downs in life. It's just how one handles it.. sometimes one can't really not believe in fate 

• -StarDust-

  7 Jun 10, 19:27

  Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

  
  Atheist=doesn't believe in God

  Irreligionist=doesn't believe in any religion

  
  Wads ur beliefs then?

• TTFU

  7 Jun 10, 19:31

  Originally posted by -StarDust-:

  
  Wads ur beliefs then?

  Both of them i guess

• -StarDust-

  7 Jun 10, 19:34

  Originally posted by TTFU:

  Both of them i guess

  
  I c.

   

• Rooney9

  10 Jun 10, 12:10

  Originally posted by -StarDust-:

  Let him/her chose what he/she wants.

  I just wanna share some bible quotes here

  For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

  John 3 :16

  Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies

  John 11 :25

  Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

  John 3 :36

  here comes the marketer

• Rooney9

  10 Jun 10, 12:12

  Originally posted by ~PEPPER~:

  
  Herzog_zwei wads ur religious beliefs? Irreligious atheists?

  I gt a frenz all religion also dun believe one. Also dun believe in God.

  I know of someone who belief in everything lol.  maybe he justs wants to diversify in case one is false